Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 554

settle a debate for me...

There is an ongoing debate going on tonight between me and my co worker, whether or not Nirvana was alternative or grunge based.

As well, I believe that classification of music is very open to interpretation, making it hard to distinguish sometimes, where as he claims ther is a "grung sound and alternative sound" and if not present in a song the music isnt said type. does that not imply that there is a music template of exactly what must played, therefore, how can music be original?

Oh, and the ChiliPeppers had nothing to do with alternative or the begining of alternative, they are a varied music rock band.

Someone please lend some sanity to this fighting...

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

Alternative - label thrown on 80% of rock music from the last 15 years. I laugh when I go into my local music store and see that almost any non-rap, non-country release goes into the "Alternative" section while the "Pop/Rock" section is more classic rock and oldies. Alternative to what is what I wanna know.

Grunge - Loud, distorted garagey subset of Alternative.

Chili Peppers - funk/rock band, falls into the category of alternative because everything does.

DM

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 554

OK, now we are debating what happened to nirvana. from bleach to smells like team spirit, he says they changed styles completely from grunge to alternative, being in his eyes the first alternative album, becoming less harsh and easier to listen to than standard grunge.

I say it was cleaner, but still grunge, and that as a standard turned into alternative as a classification.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 4101

it was grunge, it changed into grunge, it died grunge. alternative is a label for the new rock that was coming out, anything that wasn't pop or powerpop or rap was alternative. now that what is labeled "alternative" isn't an alternative anymore, alternative doesn't exist anymore.

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i'm undatable. hoorah, new word.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Denver
Posts: 1277

From my point of view, "Alternative" most accurately translates into "Post-Punk", or at least referencing Punk as its roots, as opposed to Led Zep or the Beatles as primary influence. "Grunge" mostly threw some Sabbath-sludge into the mix. 'Course, now 20 years out, almost all modern mainstream rock has some punk influence, so "Alternative" has become a mostly useless term. Grunge was mostly a self-contained subgenre, tho, and is pretty much dead now.

RHCP used to be skate-punk/funk, now they're just another alt-rock/pop band.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 2300

nirvana did change its sound as they became more famous. i think it was due to a bunch of things
-record label pressure to put out hit songs
- being exiled from the true grunge scene for "selling out". so, in turn nirvana decides to hate grunge back.
-the also had a little hippie in them "come on people now,smile on your brother everybody get together and try to love one another riht now" "Lake of Fire, etc. it could just be retro experimentation.

alternative was a marketing term. a useful umbrella that covered everything new and different. shitty derivative bands like matchbox 20 are true "alternative" bands. worthwhile musicians should fall under a different category.

RHCP-punk meets Parliament. they could still kick ass if they tried, but i have a feeling that theyre going the same way as Korn. "hey, we found something thats sells! no more thinking for us! integrity? never heard of it. im rich."

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

I believe much of Nirvana's change in sound can be attributed to these factors:

Bleach was recorded for $600.

Recording for Geffen instead of SubPop yielded much better production. Bleach is still a good album anyway, but high dollar production is going to usually produce a fuller, tighter sound.

Growth of the Artist

Bleach was relatively simple and straightforward with catchy songs. Nirvana's sound became more complex with time and they tried more things.

I think it's kind of all moot anyway. If you define what you like based on what category it falls into you're kind of missing the whole point.. does the sound and or the message get to you?

DM

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 5526

Isn't grunge a subcategory of alternative?

Alternative means this to me:
Classical:
Rock:
Country:
Jazz:
Alternative:

i.e. very little.

[This message has been edited by missphinx (edited 10-03-2000).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 554

quote:

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Originally posted by Spaceboy:
RHCP-punk meets Parliament. they could still kick ass if they tried, but i have a feeling that theyre going the same way as Korn. "hey, we found something thats sells! no more thinking for us! integrity? never heard of it. im rich."

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7236

quote:

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Originally posted by missphinx:
Isn't grunge a subcategory of alternative?

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: 51N3, 114W3
Posts: 1071

Alternative (aka College Rock): Applied liberally to all the bands that in the 80s and early 90s commercial radio wouldn't touch with a ten foot cattle prod

Grunge: Lable given to Mudhoney's sound by a reviewer for the Seattle Rocket mid-1988. Eventually used to classify everyone on Sub-Pop, and soon there after, anyone remotely associated with Seatle. Even bands from Iowa *shrug* Additional: Anything produced by Steve Albini, excluding Big Black (just 'cause).

RHCP: They were better with Hillel. You know back when they wore diapers not because it was "cool" but because the drug use had really fucked up their ability to control their bladders

Nirvana: Bleach was arguably "grunge". Nevermind probably wasn't (too clean sounding). InUtero was in parts (see Steve Albini). Any other album was cheap, disgusting record lable grave-robbing.

*Bulletin* The Notorious B.I.G. has now equaled number of albums released after his death, as he produced prior to it. *ca-ching*

[This message has been edited by scatmonkey (edited 10-04-2000).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: industrialand
Posts: 658

quote:

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Originally posted by Spaceboy:

RHCP-punk meets Parliament. they could still kick ass if they tried, but i have a feeling that theyre going the same way as Korn. "hey, we found something thats sells! no more thinking for us! integrity? never heard of it. im rich."

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