Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4678

In the form of a koan:

Squee once asked a man, "Are you a gardener?"
The man replied, "Yes."
Squee then asked the man, "Why have turnips no roots?" But the man could not answer. "Because," said Squee, "rainwater is plentiful."

I wonder who's going to be the first to figure it out...

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: 0.50
Posts: 9355

turnips ARE roots.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4678

As I said on THT...
Correct, and yet, incorrect at the same time...you are missing the point, make another attempt

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: 0.50
Posts: 9355

and as i said, that wasn't an attempt at solution, it was disagreement.
"turnips are roots". there's a koan for YOU, friend.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 15123

What's a Koan?

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: 0.50
Posts: 9355

um. a short parable, usually of buddhist origin, expressing supposed truths in the form of a riddle, sort of. paradoxes, seemingly nonsensical statements, stuff like that.
wait, i'll look it up.

"A puzzling, often paradoxical statement or story, used in Zen Buddhism as an aid to meditation and a means of gaining spiritual awakening."

i like this one

quote:

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Holding up the Zen stick, Soen Sa said "This is a stick, but it is not a stick. Originally, there is no stick. It is the same with God for originally there is no God. God is only name. The same is true of all things in the universe."

"Then is there no God?"

"The philosopher Descartes said, 'I think therefore I am.' If you do not think, you are not, and so the universe and you are one. This is your substance, the universe's substance, and God's substance. It has no name and no form. You are God, God is you. This is the 'big I,' this is the path, this is the truth. Do you now understand God?"

"Yes, I think that there is no God, and I have no God."

"If you say that you have no God, I will hit you thirty times. If you say that you do, I will still hit you thirty times."

"Why will you hit me? I don't understand. Please explain."

"I do not give acupuncture to a dead cow. Today is Tuesday." replied Soen Sa.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 969

quote:

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Originally posted by Buddha's Penis!
"Why will you hit me? I don't understand. Please explain."

"I do not give acupuncture to a dead cow. Today is Tuesday." replied Soen Sa.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 15123

Thanks for the explanation.

I still don't get it.

Me = Stupid

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Van Diemen's Land.
Posts: 3607

So basically a koan is just a bullshit story which makes itself sound smart by not adhering to logic?

Or am I completely wrong?
-most probably

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1742

Adhere to logic? Now what sense does that make?

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4678

I promise, I'll explain it to you all tonight at some point.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Liar

-m

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Posts: 424

quote:

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Originally posted by A.D.H.D
So basically a koan is just a bullshit story which makes itself sound smart by not adhering to logic?

Or am I completely wrong?
-most probably

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Van Diemen's Land.
Posts: 3607

quote:

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Originally posted by Gavin


Koans are parables that obfuscate an inderlying logic and truth, often one that cannot be verbalized. They are composed in a manner that confuses but paradoxically provokes thought, ideally culminating in an sudden realization that takes one almost by surprise.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4678

I meant to post about this last night, but instead I hit the pubs...I remember trying to explain the koan to some woman at Gene's Lounge, but I don't think she got it.

Anyway, what I was thinking was this. A wise man once told me the difference between the empirical sciences and disciplines like philosophy, painting, sculpture, poetry: The scientist sees the world and says "Why?" whereas the poet sees the world and wonders "Why not?"

Science tells you everything and nothing at the same time...it will tell you why giraffes evolved long necks but not why other animals did not. Likewise the turnip, a plant that has no need for a great root structure because it grows where rainwater is plentiful...but then why did other plants around it NOT grow the same?

You see where I'm coming from?

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Smith County
Posts: 1366

You suck, squee.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4678

This is what happens when you put down the technical manuals, programming books, and Navy regs and pick up Aristotle, Keats, and Thoreau. . .sorry, sorry,

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 2593

quote:

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Originally posted by squee
This is what happens when you put down the technical manuals, programming books, and Navy regs and pick up Aristotle, Keats, and Thoreau. . .sorry, sorry,

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: 0.50
Posts: 9355

yeah, so i was wrong. i'm not going to bother transplanting my new disagreement, so i'll just pretend that "turnips are roots" applys to this premise too.
it doesn't, though.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 9147

quote:

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Originally posted by squee
In the form of a koan:

Squee once asked a man, "Are you a gardener?"
The man replied, "Yes."
Squee then asked the man, "Why have turnips no roots?" But the man could not answer. "Because," said Squee, "rainwater is plentiful."

I wonder who's going to be the first to figure it out...

---

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location:
Posts: 9147

Oh yeah, here's a slightly augmented koan I use as a sig sometimes.

"Two monks went fishing in an electron river. The
first monk drew out his network, and out flopped a hacker.
The second monk cried, "The poor hacker! How can it live
outside of the network?" The first monk said, "When you
have learned to live outside the network, then you will know."

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