Why is it That those who seem to be relegious..

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stormydoctor
Gay homo sewing fag

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Payne, Ohio
Posts: 2062

Why is it That those who seem to be relegious..

Seem to have the most problems in life?

Im seriously wondering this.

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10-17-2001 10:33 PM

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Caffeine
Caffeine

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Location: Cambridge
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I find it the other way around.

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10-17-2001 10:40 PM

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stormydoctor
Gay homo sewing fag

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Payne, Ohio
Posts: 2062

quote:
Originally posted by Caffeine
I find it the other way around.

how so?

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10-17-2001 10:41 PM

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

Registered: Oct 2001
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Yeah, just look at Jesus, he got nailed to a cross.
Now that's fucking problematic.

Its a good thing I'm an atheist, problems would be such a bother.

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10-17-2001 10:44 PM

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missphinx
Edgy the Budgie

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So, what does the G. stand for?

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10-17-2001 10:49 PM

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by missphinx
So, what does the G. stand for?

Truth, Justice, and the American Way....

So long as it doesn't require time, effort, or money.

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10-17-2001 10:52 PM

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Caffeine
Caffeine

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 7113

quote:
Originally posted by stormydoctor

how so?

Think about it. If you strongly believed there was an afterlife, wouldn't that be comforting? Death wouldn't be as scary.

Most religions encourage meekness

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10-17-2001 11:00 PM

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bunkum
Sanditon

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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stormy, if you talked to a large sample of religious people with some depth, you'd probably discover (for the sake of simplicity) three main categories:

1) I'm religious because bad shit happens to me, and I'm desperate enough for prayer.

2) I'm religious because in 1st grade, everybody told me to be.

3) I'm religious because I've thought about what God (or insert your favorite deity's name) is/isn't, and while some aspects are mysterious and others appear to be truth, I'm going to believe.

I have to say that the majority of people I've met fall into categories 1 and 2, but people in 1 and 2 still have the opportunity to have a thinking faith, as well as an accepting or feeling one. It's a matter of spiritual growth. Go easy on them...they are struggling through the world as best as they can.

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10-18-2001 12:16 AM

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
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quote:
Originally posted by bunkum
1) I'm religious because bad shit happens to me, and I'm desperate enough for prayer.

2) I'm religious because in 1st grade, everybody told me to be.

3) I'm religious because I've thought about what God (or insert your favorite deity's name) is/isn't, and while some aspects are mysterious and others appear to be truth, I'm going to believe.

As long as you're compiling a a list of God's chosen children, bunkum,
I think you've forgotten an important if not altogether large segment of the religious population.

4) I am religious because I have spoken to the Lord of Hosts. Commonly characterized by their disheveled appearance and noticable lack of hygienic maintaince, the relatively small proportion of the population that has actually spoken with some form of omnipotent diety can often be found begging for alms on any street corner in order to establish their earthly ministry and warn of an impending apocalypse marking the end of human existence.

5) I am religious because I am the Lord of Hosts. Who would have ever guess that the favorite hangout place for 9 out of 10 omnipotent beings would be your local hospital for the clinically insane? That's right, it seems that ultimate power over the cosmos takes a back seat to patient beatings, straight-jackets, and thorozine dosages that would make an elephant drop.

- Let's try to keep the facts remotely factual.

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10-18-2001 12:39 AM

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bunkum
Sanditon

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I did not categorize the mentally insane because...well, they're mentally insane. They are rather in the minority of those considered religious. Is belief merely brought on by a chemical reaction (thorazine) or by bloodpoisoning from not bathing?

I AM ELITIST!

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10-18-2001 01:01 AM

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

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quote:
Originally posted by bunkum
Is belief merely brought on by a chemical reaction (thorazine) or by bloodpoisoning from not bathing?

Why not? Does not a madman's declaration of divinity equal that of a two-thousand year old novel chronicling the life of the son of god?

Faith and belief, untested or unproven by the sensory perception of human experience, is the folly of madmen, is it not?

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10-18-2001 01:22 AM

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Dog Breath
Cuddly Puppy

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4252

Even Atheism require a dollip of faith. Life is undeniably all around us. You have to acknowlege it's existence in order to keep your sanity.

How did all this come to exist? Beware it is a loaded question.

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morgana
THE Bitch

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: my mother's bloody womb
Posts: 7128

quote:
Originally posted by Dog Breath

How did all this come to exist? Beware it is a loaded question.

well, first stile shut his forum down, then a bunch of people said, "you know, we should start our own forum", then...

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Mr Snrub
Machine Gun Joe Viterbo

Registered: Dec 2000
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FOOLS!

Attachment: 100817511450.jpg
This has been downloaded 126 time(s).

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Cruise Director
nobody special

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Zion
Posts: 4444

quote:
Originally posted by Caffeine

Think about it. If you strongly believed there was an afterlife, wouldn't that be comforting? Death wouldn't be as scary.

Most religions encourage meekness

Actually, I think most cases get just the opposite response. People are so busy "preparing" themselves for the afterlife that they forget to live this one. They are so busy earning a spot on the right hand of God that the world passes them by. Zion is here and now Brothers and Sisters. Enjoy it while you can and quit blinding yourselves with the promises of eternal salvation.

Except DB, Props to God....*laughs* that's funny shite.

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Dog Breath
How did all this come to exist? Beware it is a loaded question.

Do you honestly expect me to be able to tell you how existence began?

Let me spare you the suspense, Pinochio, I can't. So obviously the prudent thing to do in our situation, since we cannot prove what caused the beginning of existence... is to throw all of our convictions behind an all-powerful being of which we also have no means of explaining or observing.

For the record, atheism really doesn't require a "dollip of faith" in the slightest. Faith is not required to believe that there is existence, sensory perception and human experience are evidence enough to prove that "we exist." Yes, no one knows why we exist, and yet our senses clearly indicate that we do. Faith is required in believing 'why we exist,' which is closely linked to the existence of divinity of which there is no credible sensory evidence. I have no experience that equips me to answer the question 'why do we exist.' But it surely isn't to debate philosophy, that's for fucking sure.

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10-18-2001 02:02 AM

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Ats
The machine

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Helsinki. Finland
Posts: 233

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas G. Chance

Why not? Does not a madman's declaration of divinity equal that of a two-thousand year old novel chronicling the life of the son of god?

Faith and belief, untested or unproven by the sensory perception of human experience, is the folly of madmen, is it not?

Depends on the subject of belief.

You know, attitude is important in _everything_ that you do, think or believe. You can take your work as escape in which case you'll probably burn out at some point, or you can take women (or men) as escape, in which case you'll become a slave to somebody. You can take drugs or alcohol for escape, which is dangerous. Or you can go into the opposite direction and use drugs to broaden your perspectives, for example.

The same goes for religion. You can use religion as a mental shield to let yourself think that you are superior to others. Or it can be a source of inspiration.

For myself, I can say that since I asked Him
to demonstrate His existence to me, many small things have happened that have made me believe in His existence. Like a badly tuned TV channel that shows mostly static, but the image is still visible.

"God is in the details" .. That can be understood in many ways!

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10-18-2001 02:03 AM

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Ats
For myself, I can say that since I asked Him
to demonstrate His existence to me, many small things have happened that have made me believe in His existence. Like a badly tuned TV channel that shows mostly static, but the image is still visible.

"God is in the details" .. That can be understood in many ways!

Nietzsche and I scoff at your paltry faith. Scoff, scoff.

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10-18-2001 02:06 AM

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bunkum
Sanditon

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Yet another who misuses Nietzsche...how cute!

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10-18-2001 02:20 AM

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Ats
The machine

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Helsinki. Finland
Posts: 233

quote:
Originally posted by Thomas G. Chance

Nietzsche and I scoff at your paltry faith. Scoff, scoff.

A rather pitiful scoffing attempt. Then again, what would you expect from a fundamentalist atheist.

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10-18-2001 02:21 AM

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Thomas G. Chance
Unconfirmed Theory

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quote:
Originally posted by bunkum
Yet another who misuses Nietzsche...how cute!

I didn't realize I was dealing with a literary authority. By the way, opinions without substantiating facts are really tasteless, bunkum. Nonetheless, it appears I must explain myself; I am refering to beyond good and evil, part 1: on the prejudices of philosophers, passage 12.

Specifically I am thinking of Nietzsche's rebuttal of Kant's supposed discovery of man's 'a priori' judgement faculty. He linkes this belief in an intangible faculty that is not based upon sensory observation, to scientific and religious zealotism. He then makes a case for the importance of sensory experience in the observation and validation of human experience. This is a short passage that begins this arguement:

"If one is to pursue physiology with a good conscience one is compelled to insist that the organs of sense are not phenomena in the sense of idealist philosophy: for if they were they could not be causes! Sensualism therefore is at least a regulative hypothesis, certainly a hauristic principal. - What? and other even go so far as to say that the external world is the work of our organs? But then our body, as a piece of of this external world, would be the work of our organs! But then our organs themselves would be - the work of our organs! This, it seems to me, is a complete reductio ad absurdum, supposing that the concept causa sui is something althogether absurd."

I hope that in considering the argument I have put forward, you can see how this passage about the validity of sensory perception in validating our experience plays upon my mind. Provided that you read it in the first place, of course.

This is the last time I plan to respond to unsupported opinion.
e.g. - 'you don't know what you're talking about.'

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10-18-2001 02:55 AM

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Dog Breath
Cuddly Puppy

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: California
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I certainly don't expect to convert you from Atheism nor would I want to.

I am saying that a dollop of faith is needed no matter your viewpoint. When you turn on a faucet you expect water to come out. Why? Logic tells you that it will come out just like the last 100 times. You take on faith that the physics involved in delivering that water in your faucet will go as it has in the past.

You take the things you can see and can know by logic that they work, the rest you take on faith. You take a pill and you believe it will work. You surmise it's effectiveness through results that you feel. You take it on faith that it was the pill that brought on the change.

Science is a religion based on faith. All scientific proofs start with postulates. Those are generally based on assumed cause and effect. For the most part their proof is based on faith.

Just because you claim to be an Atheist doesn't mean you aren't religious.

Religion can function without a God.

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10-18-2001 03:09 AM

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Pangloss
feu follet

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Posts: 1950

This thread just got really fucking boring.

Mr Chance, I'm disappointed. Concise wit is your forte. We have Mr Cat for the extended ramblings in which few save himself is interested.

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10-18-2001 03:12 AM

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