Registered: Jul 2000
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what about the 'daisy-cutter'? Described by 'US military experts' as a 'nuclera bomb without the fall out'. A bomb that levels a radius of 1 mile to nothing. I am sincerely starting to get sick of this 'conflict' (for it is not in my opinion a war).

The hype and propaganda is starting to really get on my nerves now. We have Bush coming out and saying that bin Laden will have nuclear weapons. What evidence does he give us for this? 'I would'nt put it past him'. This is starting to become ludricously silly.

I am also sick of the 'what is the alternative' bullshit that gets thrown around. Its obvious what the alternative is. You arrest biun Laden and make him face justice. Assuming of course there is actually any evidence that would stand up in court, which by the accounts I have heard there is not. Which is exactly why the order to assissinate him if necessary has been given. How to arrest him? Covert operations using SAS or Delta Force (the latter being obvously not as efficient as the fomer due to arrogant self pride )

I see no logical reason to bomb the shit out of Afghanistan. It makes no sense to me. No Afghani were involved in the WTC or Washington attacks. The country has by right done nothing directly wrong.

BUT! the hawks shouts. They sponsor terrorism by allowing them to live and train in their country! So what! Many terrorists train all over the world. But we don't see us bombing the Tamil Tigers, or the Real IRA, or ETA. Godd this be, and this will obviosuly get the charge of antui-americanism, but could this be because American interests are not damaged by said terrorists so they don't count?

BUT! again the hawks shout, 'we have cut off funding in America to the Real IRA and made it illegal for people to associate with them in the US'. Alot of good that did. A bomb exploded in Brimingham last weekend and if it had gone off successfully it would have killed many people. Cutting the funding has not stopped anything. It is just complacency and contradiction in the policy once more.

And then I hear, from Indigo (who is extermely knowledgable and thoughtful might I add) that we don't necessarily want to take this bombing route with all groups. What exactly makes the Afghanistan situation different then? Could it be the need for punitive revenge under the guise of some 'coalition' in order to serve public opinion?

No one, absolutely no one, in the hawk camp is asking the basic question of whether or not this is actually strengthening or weakening the terrorists and the Taleban's support. The answer, seems to be obviously it is not weakening it.

And what exactly is going to replace the regime, assuming it falls, in Afghanistan? No one seems quite sure at the moment. All we seem to get is this empty rhetoric about 'broad-based self governance' with no real specifics.

And the fact seems that the Northern Alliance are just as bad as the Taleban. Of course, if you put the Northern Alliance in power there then you destabilize Pakistan, a nuclear country. Wooohooo, that will be fun.

Rant over.

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I'm pretty much in accord with this. I think this 'War on Terror' is a bullet in the foot for the US and UK. I also would like to see Bin Laudin in court and evidence presented against him, then let us be the judge of his guilt.

Bush is, and his actions show this, that he is a man of the people. 'Middle America' wants a target. They want to see the American Military Machine crush someone 'responsible'. Too many times I hear intelligent, professional Americans say 'nuke 'em'. I think these attitudes are examples of the American parochial and isolationist nature.

The 'Middle American' of which I speak knows his country is the biggest and baddest in the world and his only interest in world affairs is how it is relevant to the US. The possible repercussions of actions in the Middle East and Afghanistan don't I think truly reach them.

Of course, this isn't any criticism of Americans per se, were we in England big enough to characterise as we do America, Bedfordshire would admirably fulfil the role of 'Middle England' provincial opinions, and Cornwall our Deep South.

The American people need revenge, they want to see it on CNN. Bush is doing what he was voted in to do; he very much is I think the incarnation of the peoples will.

I happen to think it is the wrong the thing though and that it will come back and bite us all in the ass.

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quote:

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posted by goatboy:

The American people need revenge, they want to see it on CNN. Bush is doing what he was voted in to do; he very much is I think the incarnation of the peoples will.

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Registered: Sep 2001
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Is there any anti-war action taking place in the US?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: A New England
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I haven't seen or heard of any.

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i know of a couple of different groups spawning from Austin, but i am uncertain as to the extent of their protest.

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quote:

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Originally posted by skalie
Is there any anti-war action taking place in the US?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Bangor, ME
Posts: 10238

When did goatboy turn into a hippie?

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend
When did goatboy turn into a hippie?

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Location: Upstate NY
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quote:

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Originally posted by skalie
Is there any anti-war action taking place in the US?

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Thank you kindly sir.

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http://progressiveaustin.org/

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
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So why does the daisycutter bother you so much? If it is just part of your dislike for weapons in general (that would run from slingshots to H-bombs) then just say so.
If it is a dislike for that particular weapon, I'm curious as to why.

I would have to say it is a fairly dandy tool of war. One pass with a C-130 and you have a huge swath of land cleared of everything, including the enemy. The cleared area is now available for chopper landings, etc.
The psycologiccal aspect is a good thing also. The enemy can't be too fired up about ccontinuing the fight when he sees that sort of action, particularly when he has zero air power

That isn't a pro-war point of view, just a practical look at the device.

War is ugly. These weapons can seem horrificc but are they any different than what was done in the past?
At least the killing is cleaner. Take your pick of how to die in a war. Instantainious death by being vaporized by a daisycutter or getting shot in the gut with a longbow, with agonizing pain for possibly many hours until you die.
Wouldn''t it be nice if wars were all fought by lawyers?

Last edited by wonderaz on 11-17-2001 at 11:39 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz
*wondersnip*

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I don''t understand the statement, "morality of the war". Isn't that like saying "greater Cleveland"?

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quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz
I don''t understand the statement, "morality of the war". Isn't that like saying "greater Cleveland"?

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sorry to jump in the middle of the thread....but THAT was damned funny !!!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz
So why does the daisycutter bother you so much? If it is just part of your dislike for weapons

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quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz
I don''t understand the statement, "morality of the war". Isn't that like saying "greater Cleveland"?

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Location: Hoboken, NJ: USA
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The point of war is to so demoralize the enemy that he would give up so that a war can end.

If war was a happy happy thing there would be even more of it.

Im anti-land-mine and anti-cluster-bomb because they leave unexploded ordinance to be a hinderance during peace time.

Im anti-nuke and anti-chemical-weapon and anti-biological-weapon because they leave residue that make land dangerous at worse, useless at best during peacetime.

A daisy cutter does no such thing. A daisy cutter makes the war last less time. --A good thing.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Hoboken, NJ: USA
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on another note, offtopic i know, but how old is this section of the asylum, and why hadnt anyone ever told me bout it over at THT? I think I found a new home.

-Dyslexic Tangent

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quote:

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Originally posted by PseudonymX
The point of war is to so demoralize the enemy that he would give up so that a war can end.

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We opened it three months ago when it appeared one of the THT shutdowns might be permanent (the "Someone is playing a very cruel joke" email). It was originally named "Politico de Tribal" until a couple weeks ago or so. As to why you weren't told I'm unsure; I'm sure no one wanted to encourage its use after THT came back up, especially by spamming it at THT. It was mentioned on TLF once or twice though.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MstrG
We opened it three months ago when it appeared one of the THT shutdowns might be permanent (the "Someone is playing a very cruel joke" email). It was originally named "Politico de Tribal" until a couple weeks ago or so. As to why you weren't told I'm unsure; I'm sure no one wanted to encourage its use after THT came back up, especially by spamming it at THT. It was mentioned on TLF once or twice though.

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