Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

I'm suprised no one else has felt eh need to note this.

This could possibly be the most interesting trial since OJ turned the US justice system into a joke worse than all the micheal jackson jokes.

Charges against Zacarias Mousassaoui:
Conspiracy to commit international acts of terrorism
Conspiracy to commit aircraft piracy
Conspiracy to destroy aircraft
Conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction
Conspiracy to murder US government employees
Conspiracy to destroy US government property

The first four carry potential death penalty, the other two, life sentence.

I didn't know govermnent employees were more special than the rest of us.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 10178

And the flight school in Eagan, MN is a few miles from my parents house.

Yay!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 10178

quote:

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Originally posted by Mordecai
I didn't know govermnent employees were more special than the rest of us.

-m

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Registered: Apr 2001
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Posts: 16671

Its like the difference between robbing a post office and robbing a 7-11.
Government employees are probably more of a target, therefore tougher penalties are needed to deter. Like killing a cop or something.

Anyway, the Frenchies are already crying about him and the death penalty. Dirty hippies

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taste the fucking rainbow

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Where the hell is spooky, I expected him to have something to say about this.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
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As I understand this guy is currently under French Consular Protection. And there is some serious diplomatic talks going on because of the death penalty issue. France are saying, as I understand it, they will not allow him to be tried if the death penalty remains an option.

The reason for this 'dirty hippy' line is because of something we [sarcasm] 'civilised' [/sarcasm] Europeans have called the 'Euroepan Convention on Human Rights which bans the use of the death penalty.

The exact same issue exists for the bin Laden case too. If he 'gives himself up' or is caught by a country signed to the Euroepan Convention then it will be very difficult for that country to publicly hand him over to the US because they would be in violation of human rights agreements.

Of course, and before we get into the old, 'you lose your human rights when you commit terrorism' line etc. This is another classic example of the different premises Europe has on human rights to the US. For Europe the premise is that human rights are 'inalienable' (for want of a better word) and thus no matter how horrible and nasty you might be, you are still entitled to be treated as a human being because you are one. In comparison the US take on human rights is that they are only 'inalienable' as long as one follows the law of the land. Thus human rights from the US angle are selectively applied dependent on each person, rather than the universal application that Europe has.

All in all, it shoudl be interesting to see what happens. This guy iis still under French Consular protection, so he won't go to trial until the issue of the death penalty is sorted. And we all know what the French are like when they take a position on something. Good luck.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Terriers with a bone? Yes there was something more in yesterdays paper, or was that the day before? anyways, I'll find it in a bit, but I'm wanting to follow this because it's likely to have more ramifications than the general mayhem and bloodshed currently occuring in Afghanistan.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Mordecai
because it's likely to have more ramifications than the general mayhem and bloodshed currently occuring in Afghanistan.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Hmmm well I think the US public forgetting him would depend on how many and how quickly we managed to put some others on very public trial. The general poplace wants to see someone twisting in the wind, and they'll want it soon.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Mordecai
Hmmm well I think the US public forgetting him would depend on how many and how quickly we managed to put some others on very public trial.

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evidently. I still think this could get very interesting. We (that is the UK) are walking a tightrope over this at the moment, because of the SAS capture bin Laden then technically we could not hand him over to the US to face the death penalty. There are rumours here that an agreement has been made that if we do capture him then no announcement willbe made, we will hand him over, and then the US would claim the prize. (typical really, we do all the work and someone else gets the credit )

Anyways, if that was too happen, it could be very dangerous for this administration. SAS officiers in this country are well known for writing books after these kind of incidents. I hope the rumours are not true, because otherwise it will backfire after the 25 year rule anyway. I'd like to think that we can maintain our position on human rights over and above some kind of special relationship issue personally.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen is bin laden getting killed in some innocous way, such as a car wreck or something, or casualty in a bombing raid. Why? because if a european country snags him and refuses to turn hom over the US, well, I still see more flags flying everyday, cars, construction sites, houses, offices, I wouldn't want to see the locals screaming for us to hit France or something to get Osama.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: my mother's bloody womb
Posts: 7126

maybe it's just my typical american ignorance, but i really don't see how it's "uncivilized" to punish a murderer with death.

you take a life, we take your life. what's wrong with that?

i totally respect the europeans for attempting to look superior to us american barbarians...but i would much rather kill a man like this than have more terrorists threaten us with attacks to release him.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

*ahem*

I think the death penalty arguement has been done to death in about 40 million threads.

-m

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: ...The Basement. Duh.
Posts: 442

I have no idea what this thread is about...but I can just say...I still hate you all.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10121

quote:

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Originally posted by Mordecai
... I wouldn't want to see the locals screaming for us to hit France or something to get Osama.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Hmm, ok so france is ok, but I don't want a conflict with limeyland, they wouldn't let spooky talk to us anymore.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10121

quote:

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Originally posted by Spooky
(typical really, we do all the work and someone else gets the credit )..

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Man y'all determined to de-rail my therad or what?

-m

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

quote:

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Originally posted by morgana
maybe it's just my typical american ignorance, but i really don't see how it's "uncivilized" to punish a murderer with death.

you take a life, we take your life. what's wrong with that?

i totally respect the europeans for attempting to look superior to us american barbarians...but i would much rather kill a man like this than have more terrorists threaten us with attacks to release him.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
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quote:

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Originally posted by Spooky
Of course, and before we get into the old, 'you lose your human rights when you commit terrorism' line etc. This is another classic example of the different premises Europe has on human rights to the US. For Europe the premise is that human rights are 'inalienable' (for want of a better word) and thus no matter how horrible and nasty you might be, you are still entitled to be treated as a human being because you are one.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Delaware
Posts: 5704

quote:

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Originally posted by Spooky


I reckon, and you can shoot me down in flames if you like, but I reckon that the public in the US would prolly forget it if this guy did'nt get the death penalty, but for bin Laden it is far more important.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 4252

You must not attack France!

French whores are a critical global resource. Although there are substitutes they only amount to soyburger an inferior substitute for beef.

Those overly perfumed sluts and their sissy little effeminate coffies maintain the critical eco balance on good taste and manliness.

Removal of them from the web of life would produce an overly clean, friendly, and heterosexual planet causing a population explosion.

Save the French, "Our global birth control".

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19562

Eh, we can clone them now, pave paris.

-m

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