Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 1579

International Law

I'm a bit unclear on how exactly we *could* try UBL or Omar in American courts... don't you have to be in American territory to fall under our laws? Or could you conspire to do blah blah blah in France, and as long as Blah blah blah happens in the US, you're under our jurisdiction? There is no doubt in my mind that UBL could be held on war crimes, and tried as such... but we Americans are a bit blood thirsty, and international criminal tribunals don't provide for the death penalty anymore...

I think this may be why Bush is setting up military tribunals. Tribunals aren't constrained in the same way the normal legal process is. I think he's willing to take the political ugliness in order to make sure Mr. UBL is nullified.

What're your thoughts on the applicability of US law on UBL et al? versus international law, war crimes? What about tribunals?

leakynips

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There has been a bit of debate about this. An interesting thing that was debated before was about US reluctance to allow their own troops to be tried for war crimes, i.e., held up to scrutiny by the International Community so it would be a little odd if they tried to use that same community to try him

It would be easier if he ended up dead before arrest, perhaps.

His crimes (conspiracy, etc.) weren't even committed in the US, for a start. It is tricky to work out. But I guess that the Northern Alliance will be happy to give him up PDQ, at least.

If he were captured by an EU nation, they could only hand him over to the US if the death sentance were waived.

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Britain has decided to hand UBL to US troops while still in Afghanistan, avoiding the need to deal with extradition and guarantees about the death penalty.

It's a very tricky situation.

Leakynips

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quote:

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Originally posted by greenleakynipples
Britain has decided to hand UBL to US troops while still in Afghanistan, avoiding the need to deal with extradition and guarantees about the death penalty.

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Id be damned if my taxes went to my government and then my government sent donations or dues or what have you over to the international community to be used to feed UBL after he's found guilty of war crimes against me...

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quote:

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Originally posted by PseudonymX
Id be damned if my taxes went to my government and then my government sent donations or dues or what have you over to the international community to be used to feed UBL after he's found guilty of war crimes against me...

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My guess is he will be DOA.

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quote:

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Originally posted by euphorbia


My guess is he will be DOA.

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I really don't think we should execute him, even if we do capture him.

Keep him surrounded. Limit his control, they will question everything that comes about.

kill him and their cause will live on, contained and his followers will always question.

subversion is the key

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend
Keep him surrounded. Limit his control

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quote:

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Feed him, clothe him, spend thousands of tax dollars keeping him alive in decent conditions, and allow for rescue attempts, and more terror as a result of us holding him, a man of islam, hostage.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend

if you have a 3rd ideal, i'd like to hear it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend


trapped in a cave, and monitoring his calls is better then having him spend his fathers millons on attacking another large building. trapped in a cave is hardly is decent conditions.

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X, it seems as though your mind is made up in the matter

I want him confined.

You'd rather see him dead.

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I'd rather see him in a Playboy centerfold, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

It's not like there's another option: he'll be killed during some sort of "firefight."

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In a very sick, sad way, I'd really like to see bin Laden humiliated in some sort of pornographic manner. You can't be a respected martyr when everyone in the world has seen you guzzling sperm and licking butt. It'd be pretty hard to rally al Queda around the cause of a man that regularly clamped mouse traps on his genitals while being dominated by oversized women wearing fishnets and stepping on bugs.

Maybe pornography IS the solution to the terrorist problem...

Leakynips

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend
X, it seems as though your mind is made up in the matter
I want him confined.
You'd rather see him dead.

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The only question left in my mind is, "who will be Jack Ruby 2002?"

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend
trapped in a cave is hardly is decent conditions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dyslexic Tangent


Not necessarily so, its just a matter of practicality.
His guilt is uncontested. I'd say give him a fair trial beforehand if that were at all possible. If his guilt is completely assured then for the sake of practicality he should get death.

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uncontested i would like to see. not that i disagree, mind you, i would like to see the evidence at hand.

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There is no reason we should have to pay to keep him around. We need to move on from him, not keep him in our budget.

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Again, not that I agree that spending money on the turd is the solution. Neither is killing him outright. (even with trial) It would assauge some primal urge in most citizens of the US, but it would also show his followers is "righteous" path in the name of Allah. (yay virgins! ) Then again we are going back to the martyr arguement stated above.

As far as the money situation goes, I think you are looking too short term. This isn't going to go away outright, as soon as we pop a cap in Bin Laden. We will still spend money regardless, on his organization, where his money went, towards his 2nd and 3rd ranks, what he had access to, etc. al Queda isn't going to dissappear from our budget.

quote:

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--this is PseudonymX's, new handle.

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ya I saw the name change. I'm also about to fall asleep in my chair. If above doesn't make sense, I'll expound on it tomorrow.

*dammit i need beer!*

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend
As far as the money situation goes, I think you are looking too short term. This isn't going to go away outright, as soon as we pop a cap in Bin Laden. We will still spend money regardless, on his organization, where his money went, towards his 2nd and 3rd ranks, what he had access to, etc. al Queda isn't going to dissappear from our budget.

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