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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

Normal Again : Buffy Spoiler for Limeys ie UJ

Ok, tonight episode of Buffy was by far the best I have seen yet. Ok so the idea is not original. Twleve Monkeys springs to mind in tersm of the ideas about 'flucuating reality' springs to mind.

-------------------------------

Summuary:

Buffy is sent into a wild fluctuation between alternative realities - in one world she's the vampire slayer, in the other she's been institutionalized for severe delusional schizophrenia. With either world appealing and disturbing for different reasons, she faces a difficult choice of which reality to accept.

-------------------------------

Now the thing is its obvious which path Buffy chooses, but I actually think that Whedon has written himself a very useful get out clause here for the whole series finale (whenever that may be but it has to happen one day).

For those that watched it you will have noticed that each time Buffy 'hallucinates' being in the mental instituion it is proceeded by a catalyst from Buffy in the Sunnydale reality. Basically she goes all faint and closes her eyes when it starts. But the final scene of the episode is in the instituiton and this is not proceeded by 'catalyst'. The scene simply swuitches instantly to the hosiptal, and the doctor checking a catatonic Buffy's pupil reaction and telling her parents that she is 'gone again'.

Whedon has deliberately left this open ended, and I think the reason is that it gives him a get out to end it all. There are references to the period that Buffy is 'dead' in Sunnydale in the hospital where they say she had a moment of recovery during the summer and became lucid again.

I thought the episode was cool and if it is true that nothing is real it poses intersting questions for Angel. Of course, we could see an episode of Angel where Cordelia trips out and is in fact in the same instituion as Buffy and they are having shared delusions. Crossing over is difficult now though because they are on different networks.

Thats, my take on it anyway. A damn good episode.

Last edited by philjit on 04-25-2002 at 11:00 PM

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Old Post 04-25-2002 10:53 PM
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Musashi
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 862

i didn't see the whole episode when it aired here, but it sounded to me like it's a neat little package for the death/return scenario and for anything future if/when SMG decides to leave, or the show ends

what's the connection you make with angel tho? if it was made in the episode itself, i didn't see it - or is this just your interpretation and speculation?

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Old Post 04-26-2002 12:53 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

well if Buffy has rerally been in a mental asylum for the last six years, then Angel must be a delusion too. Problem is that Angle is on a different Network now so they are not able to crossover the series like they did in the past. Also how do you explain Angle (a delusion) having a story going on in LA that Buffy is not in if its her delusion.

So you use Cordelia, and make her be delsuional two and somehow linked to Buffy in the Asylum. ala Brad Pitt and Bruce Willis in Twelve Monkeys. Joined delusions.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 01:03 AM
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Fiend
batshit crazy

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Bangor, ME
Posts: 10181

There is going to be a new episode next week I believe.

Anya is a vengence demon again and gets really pissed at Xander (obviously) and everyone finds out about Spike and Buffy (i think)

I blame you limeys for hooking me on this show cause you talked about it all the time in here.
I've seen all the episodes thanks to the FX channel. They play two hours of Buffy a day.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 03:39 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

yes next weeks is called Entropy. Should be good. I read the script earlier

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Old Post 04-26-2002 03:42 AM
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Musashi
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 862

that'd explain it...
shared delusions could be interesting - altho it'd have to involve SOME crossover which isn't likely considering the station differences.

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Old Post 04-26-2002 08:13 AM
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urbanjunkie
23

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
Posts: 9826

ok,

let me quote part of an interview with Marti Noxon.



quote:


> Let's start with the episode that really riled up the fans: Did Buffy's
> trip to the mental hospital mean the entire show is just a
> hallucination?

Noxon: We never meant for it to be a statement of the show. If so, it
would have been the very last episode of Buffy. We just wanted to have a
little fun and say: "Could it have all been her hallucination?" It was a
brain teaser. We believe in the world of Buffy. Wholeheartedly.

We didn't want to invalidate her whole journey.
It was just kind of a what-if, not a thesis statement,
and we're not going to have asylum shows from now on.







and secondly, this newsgroup post is pretty much on the ball;


quote:



My interpretation was that the whole hospital thing was a
delusion on Buffy's part. Much like Xander's 'visions' in
Hell's Bells were actually his own nightmares about how the
marriage would turn out, what Buffy sees is what she wants
to see. Her mind creates this reality, where her parents are
still together and there's no supernatural complications in
her life, and she really was insane all those years ago when
she thought she saw vampires.

All of the psychiatrist's dialogue could come from Buffy's
mind; the opinion on the ridiculousness of the Geeks, the
sheer unlikelihood of suddenly acquiring a sister, etc. This
could be taken as a meta-comment but it could also be taken
as Buffy looking at her life and realising the absurdity of
it all. Xander's unconvincing defence of life in Sunnydale
("...a sister who's a universe-destroying ball of energy")
underlines this.

The interesting thing, to me, is that for a while, Buffy
actually chooses to live in this delusion, even though she
knows full well that it's a delusion. Life hurts right now
and she'd rather escape to the catatonic life of being with
imaginary parents who love her. It's a good metaphor for
being suicidal, as this catatonic state is very similar to
her recent death and trip to 'heaven', as referenced by the
psychiatrist.

It's a bit of a shame that this episode didn't come earlier
in the season, as was intended, as it would have fit in
better with Buffy's feeling of dislocation at the time.
Since then, we've had a few episodes where Buffy's been
forced to face up to the real world; virtually every episode
lately - it's not so much a theme as a great big hammer
hitting us about the head. "I just want to feel
aliiiiiivvvve!".

As for the ending, I don't see any ambiguity. Buffy's made
her choice to live in the real world and to deal with it.
She hasn't taken the antidote yet so the hospital is still
there, but she's now got the strength to refuse to
participate in the delusion anymore. The catatonic state
she's in, of course, parallels the 'real' catatonic state
she would have been in if she'd let the demon kill her
friends and just refused to deal with the consequences. At
which point, she would have definitely ended up in a
hospital - and a secure one at that.








basically, it would cheat us all if it turned out to be a hallucination.

i dont watch angel (though i've seen all the buffy cross-over episodes and a few others). but maybe phil can confirm this. didnt the ending of angel season one suggest that angel would have a part to play in sending all the demons/vampires on earth back to the hellmouth forever and then he would be made human as his reward?

if this is the case, buffy will probably come to and end with no big huge mega finale - but leaving us knowing she is still fighting vampires and the like.........while angel continues for a couple of more seasons and then maybe ends with either a crossover or a movie were the final battle occurs and angel and buffy live happliy ever after.

ok, so prob number one with this is that buffy and angel are not on the same network.

prob number 2, is (within the story) nobody knows when this battle will happen for angel. it may occur 100 years from now, and therefore long after the buffster has passed away.

one thing to take note it that joss has already written and published FRAY - set in the future about the next vampire slayer. the story is that a hundred years (or more) after the hellmouth is closed - it re-opens.....and thus a new slayer is called.

whatever happens, its a damn good series. always has been, always will be.

and before i forget, it was a great episode.

joss has already written FRAY (its 7 part comic book set in the future).

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Old Post 04-29-2002 12:50 AM
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urbanjunkie
23

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
Posts: 9826

*bump*

for phils benefit. comments please.

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Old Post 05-03-2002 10:21 AM
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Musashi
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 862

i haven't seen it yet - but its on my gf's computer so i'm trying to get it and bring it to work =)

i also have next weeks...some local stations fucked up & played it a week early

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Old Post 05-03-2002 03:45 PM
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