urbanjunkie
23
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
Posts: 9788 |
quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
never understood people who support specific clubs with anything more than a vauge commitment
The way it should be is, “you support your local football club”. A 150 years back, that’s the way it was – and in fact it was always about community and the like until maybe the past 20 odd years.
If you were born in Liverpool, you supported Liverpool, Everton or Tranmere. You didn’t support a club based at the other end of the country. Nowadays, this has changed. Pretty much due to televised matches. For example, when Manchester United began their ascension towards domestic domination 10 years ago – the fact that the media and television hyped them so much and young kids at school, undecided on who to support, opted for the ‘team at the top of the league’. That’s why you will find so many United supporters in the South East of England – nowhere near Manchester.
People who are not into football at a serious level, became fully fledged supporters once their team begin to show success. Or they simply jump on the bandwagon ie. Glory hunters.
This is not to say that you can no be inspired to support someone. A friend of mine told me he became a Liverpool supporter (when he was only eight years old) because he was fascinated by their club badge. It doesn’t make him any less of a fan, even more so because he lives in London.
My grandfather, lived in Camden Town which is in North London. He would go to a number of London based clubs to watch matches. Yes, even Highbury (the home of Arsenal) and Stamford Bridge. But it was the style and grace of the football Tottenham played that made him support them with a passion. And the team he watched in the 1960’s (still considered one of the best club sides ever) moved him to being totally committed to them.
You see, regardless of ‘how’ you make that first decision. Regardless of how a football club makes that first impression on you – when you decide to support someone – that’s it. You don’t tend to change teams ever. I’m not disputing it doesn’t happen. If it does, it tends to happen when a fan is very young in age and easily influenced.
People were moved – all around the world – when the plane carrying Manchester United team squad crashed, killing 23 of the 43 passengers. That was back in 1958. That’s the reason Manchester United are the worlds most supported club. Again, my point here is that even with the ‘lets support our local team’ ethos – you can live on the other side of the world and still be passionate about a club in another country.
Denis Bergkamp, who is Dutch and plays for Arsenal has always been upfront about being a fanatical Tottenham supporter as a young lad because he loved the Spurs team of the ‘80s.
Ok, I’m getting a bit off track.
The point is, you make a decision either geographical or inspirational. Rarely do you go back on it.
(changing teams, especially in adulthood tends to lose you all credibility)
The bonding you make to a football club can also depend on many factors.
For example,
(Scotland) Celtic were founded in 1888, drawing most of its members from Glasgow’s large (catholic) immigrant community. Rangers (founded in 1873) drew their support from the citys Protestant community who had ties to the pro-british northern irish loyalist community – and were also socially better off.
Religion, politics and class.
You see, this is why football is so much more than 22 men kicking a ball around a pitch. At least for the supporters, its never changed.
For Celtic and Rangers fans it’s about identity. Its about saying, ‘this is who I am and this is what I stand for’.
Personally, the celtic/rangers thing is probably the most extreme case. Most of the time rivalries steam from football related issues as opposed to religion.
Spurs hate Arsenal because arsenal were originally from South london and to avoid liquidation they were moved to North London - bang on our doorstep - in 1913 (theres a lot more to it - but its all football related as opposed to anything outside of the game).
The commitment thing is again a statement. Staying loyal says a lot about ones self.
quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
What function does this serve in your life, what need does it fulfil?
I may have answered this already. If I haven’t, please point it out and ask me to address a specific thing.
I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean by ‘function’.
I support Tottenham because my grandfather supported them and his son, my uncle, supports them. From the very first game I ever went to, the whole experience was overwhelming. The singing, the chanting, the stadium. Everything.
I don’t ever question having to decide whether I should support someone else.
I suppose you could ask a Colchester supporter or anyone who supports teams that are not in the Premier Division. After the Premier Division, you have:
Division One
Division Two
Division Three
Then below are the non-league (amateur) divisions.
Premier League clubs, such as Manchester Utd and Newcastle get over 50,000 fans at home matches. Manchester Utd have a 67,000 capacity.
Division Three clubs, some of them, may only get a few hundred home fans. Now, you may ask – why the hell would you support a club who can never get promoted and only ever play in the lower leagues?
Why support a team that hasn’t won a single major honour?
Wouldn’t it be easier to just say change allegiance? Wouldn’t it be easy to just support Manchester United – who always win trophies?
But then doing so, wouldn’t that be selling out? Wouldn’t that be glory hunting? A quick fix?
Wouldn’t the very act of jumping ship to a winning team make the automatic glory taste that little bit sour?
Its like betting on a boxer who you know will win because the other bloke has been paid to take a dive.
The whole point of it is to sit on the rollercoster and enjoy the ride. You can see the metaphor. Ups, downs……..etc. You don’t know what quite to expect at the next turn.
The ‘70’s and ’80s were dominated by Liverpool FC. Unstoppable. Biggest club in Europe, let alone England.
Manchester United hadn’t won the league since the 1960s. When they appointed Alex Ferguson as manger, the first 4 years were very poor and they almost sacked him. They didn’t – and he lead them to total domination of the English Domestic league. Liverpool havent won the league since 1990.
All those years of having to put up with the gloating Liverpool fans were over.
It’s a buzz. Anticipation, expectancy, potential………..whatever. Its real because you don’t switch over. Your only ever tuned into the one channel.
There’s simply no fun changing allegiance. As mentioned before, this is never an issue because its never asked of us.
quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
chances are the Tottenham Hotspurs are, for all intents and purposes, an entirely different club than they were 30 years ago
West Ham United (smugs team) haven’t won too much in their history, but they play a certain style and always produce certain types of players. They have a footballing identity.
The Spurs have been playing at White Hart Lane since 1900 and have always drawn massive support from the large Jewish, Cypriot and Irish communities in the area.
So, that’s over 100 years playing out of the same stadium.
Spurs may have lost ground in the past ten years due to very poor mis-management at board room level that has held as back on the pitch - but we have always taken great pride in the style of football we play.
Free flowing, attack-minded, adventurous football has been a hallmark of Tottenham teams over the years. Going back to the 50’s – and the great push and run team (one touch football style that wasn’t a normal tactic of any team).
1960s, 1970’s and the 1980’s - Spurs have always entertained. Because of the types of players we had (attack minded and not very defensive) we suffered as a League club but are one of the most successful Cup teams in England.
The style and the players define a club in many ways.
Take Arsenal.
‘Lucky’ and ‘boring’ are the usual chants hurled at them by opposing fans (though not for the past 5 or so years since they have opted, ironically a more classic spurs approach to their game).
'Lucky' stemmed from their style of play under the great Herbert Chapman ( 1930’s) which involved soaking up the pressure at the back and then scoring breakaway goals on the counter-attack.
The 'Boring' tag came about much more recently (late 80’s and early 90’s), and resulted from the side's success being built on a defensive, rather an attacking foundation.
They were successful playing a very negative style. They would win games 1-0. Were us Tottenham would win matches 3-2 or 4-1 but also lose by the same score.
Now a few years back, one of arsenals most successful managers – George Graham -became the manger at spurs. We never really ‘welcomed’ him because of his past and in the end he was sacked – making way for a former legendary player, Glenn Hoddle.
Now Graham, at his time at Spurs tried to adopt a style of play that was alien to us – the supporters. You see regardless of the fact that attack minded football played by graceful players isn’t a recipe for league success – we would not surrender our football philosophy to play boring ultra-defensive tactics.
Stubborn? No. Tottenham have always had cultured players. Players with skill and natural ability. I could list a load of players from the past 50 years – I wont because they wont mean anything to you – but we have come to expect spurs to play a certain way.
So, no – we are not a different club from 30 years back.
Arsenal, finally appointed a manager that has brought attack minded football to their club with a strong defence. Spurs have never managed to get that balance right. But that’s a different thread altogether and not something that would interest you.
My point is, each club has a strong philosophy. At least the clubs that have remained in top flight football for many many years.
To quote Danny Blanchflower (spurs legend):
“the great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. Its nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. Its about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom”.
quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
I just don't understand how that gets to be any more than casual, much less devotion or obsession.
again, i hope i've answered this.
quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
if your team replaced every single person on it right from CEO to towelboys to every athlete and moved to a different city (or country), would you still be a fan?
I honestly think this is an American issue. We don’t move clubs from one location to another. At least not great distances.
Moving from one part of london to another has happened, but for example Spurs would not move to North England.
For financial reasons or otherwise. We are a London club. That’s it. We might, in the future move from White Hart Lane to another part of North London if we don’t get planning permission to extend our stadiums capacity. But your scenario isn’t a valid one for England or Europe.
Small clubs are sometimes move in order to avoid going out of existence. Wimbledon are based in South London and have long since left their original home. They currently ground share.
There are plans to move them out of London. Their supporters are furious, and have basically stated that the club will die if this happens.
In the US, it seems the priority is about making money. I don’t sense the ‘community’ thing. That’s why I have also posted (maybe a year or so ago) about how you can possibly support a club and then watch it move from one side of america to the other, changing its name in the process.
I suppose, we have football clubs and you have franchises.
but yes. i will always support my club. even if they did move - just to answer your question if it was meant as a 'question of loyalty'.
otherwise, i cant answer it, because it wouldnt happen.
hope, i answered you questions 
Last edited by urbanjunkie on 05-17-2002 at 04:20 AM
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05-16-2002 09:50 PM
