Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

The Complexity Complex

Is a speech I heard some years back, and a very good one. I thought I would horribly misrepresent it here to see your thoughts.

It contended that, especially in the latter part of the last millenium, man had an inherent capacity to overexplain things to the point of inherent redundancy, and indeed to a point in which the original idea is essentially lost in terms of true meaning. Perhaps through neccessity, perhaps through excess, but whatever the case, man has a complex in which he feels the need to tack on so many bells and whistles onto an idea as to render the core meaning of said idea moot, even, well, meaningless. Kinda the same point that the Are You Smarter Than a Pre-schooler made, that in our mental masturbation and overemphasis on detail, we lose sight of the basic picture.

However, the really fascinating part of the oration came when the speaker described the converse.

One of the things that humans crave the most is simplicity. In fact, he argued, generally most technological innovations and revolutions are complex means for the sake of simplicity in the end. For example, we wire together incredibly complex microchips so we can multiply 6 times 13 on a calculator, shit like that. Yet in those cases, the complex means can ultimatly render the simple ends moot. For example, for all the technological innovations that have been made in the name of making things more simple and easy, do you think our lives today are any simpler than the lives of people who lived 500 years ago? Are we happier?

What really got me was when he got into political thought and philosophy. The ideas and dogmas that are the simplest tend to be the ones that gather the most fervent followers the quickest. To use an American example, the complexities of all the different policy differences between the Democrats and the Republicans has lead to amazing apathy towards both parties. While on a point by point basis they may have widely differing views, they no longer have any simple message to mobilize the public with. When that happens, when the message gets lost, it becomes a competition of personalities, where people like Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot can rise to power. While people claim to vote for these people to "send a message", that message is essentially that all the other options bore them, fail to galvanize their hearts and their minds.

Look at any major movements that have had incredible support and impact over the last few hundred years, and at the core of these movements is one very simple idea or belief, complexities be damned. And the masses hunger for that simplicity, and even if it is negative, they will fall in line behind it. The French Revolution, McCarthyism, Ghandi, Adolf Hitler, Jesus Christ. They all share that one element in common: simplicity in message.

Look at the Civil Rights Movement in America. It didn't work because leaders such as Martin Luther King was leading marches in support of re-drawing voter districts to get better minority representation. Malcolm X was not so charismatic because he wanted to argue the semantics of block grants to inner city schools. Both of those things came later, when the whole movement had already spun it's wheels. The whole movement, the one that had the true impact and support, had a simple message to it: Equality. Freedom now. Those are messages that can galvanize incredible support. Not only because they are good and just (see McCarthyism and Hitler for counter examples), but rather, in a large part, for their simplicty. No getting bogged down in the complexities that everything else drudges through. That is part of why the Hippies had such electric energy. Or any whacko religous cults. Simplicity of message is something man inherently thirsts after.

I dunno. It was a fucking fascinating speech, and I am sure I am horribly slaughtering it in paraphrase, but I was just thinking about it this morning and have been ever since. It's an interesting concept to me. Thought I would see what you guys think.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: my mother's bloody womb
Posts: 7148

sooo...your speech was about how people use alot of words to express a simple thought?

heehee.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: 54.60°N 5.70°W
Posts: 1950

Do you know what I like?

I like it when it's a really warm night and after a while you turn your pillow over onto the other side. It's nice and cool on that side, and I'm happy for a minute or two.

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There is no music any more.
Music was assassinated on the 8th December 1980

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

I hate you guys.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 4101

amen

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i'm undatable. hoorah, new word.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Posts: 19114

I have so much to say about this but I would find it to be so oxymoronic that....

Morgana? Could I hitch a ride on that thought?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

Dammit, Wonderaz, that's the whole point. It raises ISSUES, man. I wanted to discuss it. But these pigfuckers just wanna talk about Toasty The Dog.

I'm so misunderstood.

"Nobody'll hire me. Because I raise issues."
---Being John Malkovich

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 4101

i just agree with pangloss's statement on the pillow, thats one of lifes most wonderfull things

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i'm undatable. hoorah, new word.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

Damn.

And here I thought you were with me on that whole hating everybody thing.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: NC/USA
Posts: 558

Yeah...
aint that great?

quote:

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Originally posted by Pangloss:
Do you know what I like?

I like it when it's a really warm night and after a while you turn your pillow over onto the other side. It's nice and cool on that side, and I'm happy for a minute or two.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: NC/USA
Posts: 558

In sticking with the desire for simplicity I will simply say AMEN!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs:
Is a speech I heard some years back, and a very good one. I thought I would horribly misrepresent it here to see your thoughts.

It contended that, especially in the latter part of the last millenium, man had an inherent capacity to overexplain things to the point of inherent redundancy, and indeed to a point in which the original idea is essentially lost in terms of true meaning. Perhaps through neccessity, perhaps through excess, but whatever the case, man has a complex in which he feels the need to tack on so many bells and whistles onto an idea as to render the core meaning of said idea moot, even, well, meaningless. Kinda the same point that the Are You Smarter Than a Pre-schooler made, that in our mental masturbation and overemphasis on detail, we lose sight of the basic picture.

However, the really fascinating part of the oration came when the speaker described the converse.

One of the things that humans crave the most is simplicity. In fact, he argued, generally most technological innovations and revolutions are complex means for the sake of simplicity in the end. For example, we wire together incredibly complex microchips so we can multiply 6 times 13 on a calculator, shit like that. Yet in those cases, the complex means can ultimatly render the simple ends moot. For example, for all the technological innovations that have been made in the name of making things more simple and easy, do you think our lives today are any simpler than the lives of people who lived 500 years ago? Are we happier?

What really got me was when he got into political thought and philosophy. The ideas and dogmas that are the simplest tend to be the ones that gather the most fervent followers the quickest. To use an American example, the complexities of all the different policy differences between the Democrats and the Republicans has lead to amazing apathy towards both parties. While on a point by point basis they may have widely differing views, they no longer have any simple message to mobilize the public with. When that happens, when the message gets lost, it becomes a competition of personalities, where people like Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot can rise to power. While people claim to vote for these people to "send a message", that message is essentially that all the other options bore them, fail to galvanize their hearts and their minds.

Look at any major movements that have had incredible support and impact over the last few hundred years, and at the core of these movements is one very simple idea or belief, complexities be damned. And the masses hunger for that simplicity, and even if it is negative, they will fall in line behind it. The French Revolution, McCarthyism, Ghandi, Adolf Hitler, Jesus Christ. They all share that one element in common: simplicity in message.

Look at the Civil Rights Movement in America. It didn't work because leaders such as Martin Luther King was leading marches in support of re-drawing voter districts to get better minority representation. Malcolm X was not so charismatic because he wanted to argue the semantics of block grants to inner city schools. Both of those things came later, when the whole movement had already spun it's wheels. The whole movement, the one that had the true impact and support, had a simple message to it: Equality. Freedom now. Those are messages that can galvanize incredible support. Not only because they are good and just (see McCarthyism and Hitler for counter examples), but rather, in a large part, for their simplicty. No getting bogged down in the complexities that everything else drudges through. That is part of why the Hippies had such electric energy. Or any whacko religous cults. Simplicity of message is something man inherently thirsts after.

I dunno. It was a fucking fascinating speech, and I am sure I am horribly slaughtering it in paraphrase, but I was just thinking about it this morning and have been ever since. It's an interesting concept to me. Thought I would see what you guys think.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 4101

quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs:
Damn.

And here I thought you were with me on that whole hating everybody thing.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Posts: 19114

quote:

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Originally posted by Paint,


......To use an American example, the complexities of all the different policy differences between the Democrats and the Republicans has lead to amazing apathy towards both parties. While on a point by point basis they may have widely differing views, they no longer have any simple message to mobilize the public with. When that happens, when the message gets lost, it becomes a competition of personalities, where people like Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot can rise to power. While people claim to vote for these people to "send a message", that message is essentially that all the other options bore them, fail to galvanize their hearts and their minds.

---

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