Rumsfeld says Iraq issue won't start WW3

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squee
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Rumsfeld says Iraq issue won't start WW3

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/11/15/ru...iraq/index.html

...but I would note that this is how we got into WW2...
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/11/14/nk....oil/index.html

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11-15-2002 05:55 PM

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euphorbia
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The fact that they are firing at UN peace keepers patrolling no fly zones is enough to justify war imo. The fact that we have to patrol no fly zones is enough reason to rid ourselves of Saddam imo.
In the opinion of my uncle in law who is always over seas and will be leaving for Germany shortly, and cant discuss what exactly he does for a living only it involves the military (though he is not military) ugly shit is going to happen, and he says the general public has no idea of the true situation and if we don�t start fighting like we are fighting for our lives many people are going to die, more than need to. Welcome to the Muslim (extremists) equivalent of the Crusades my friends.
Saddam is a whole nother matter...but not separate in intention.

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11-15-2002 06:09 PM

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Aydin
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Thanks for the monger, phorbie.

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11-15-2002 08:52 PM

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SocialParasite
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quote:

Welcome to the Muslim (extremists) equivalent of the Crusades my friends.

And it's about damn time.

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11-15-2002 09:00 PM

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euphorbia
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quote:
Originally posted by Tak
Thanks for the monger, phorbie.

hey buddy, the government would have stoned you (for being teh gay) for sport in Afghanistan not too long ago(and still would in some places)�Id surely be stoned for showing an ankle or having opinions. I�m not the monger, I�m just being honest.

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11-15-2002 09:30 PM

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Aydin
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They can live their way of life, and I'll live mine.

edit: Not that Afghanistan has anything to do with this.

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11-15-2002 09:47 PM

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euphorbia
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tak
They can live their way of life, and I'll live mine.

Thats such a crock of shit Tak, shame on you. you are either for human rights or you are not. The only ones "living their (fucking) life" are the ones with power, the totalitarian zealot government.
And you would not be able to "live your life" there as people like you weren�t able to "live their life there" because of their sexual pref....and you would not be able to "live your life" if they had their way and made everycountry a muslim state under their view of Islam. You cant choose human rights selectively, you are either for human rights or you are not. If you are only for the rights of those from the west then you do not support human rights, you support your rights and feel you have more value, or have more of a right to live your homosexual life style than some poor bastard under the rule of a Muslim extremist government. For real man, take a sec to ponder your stance eh?

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11-15-2002 09:58 PM

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Aydin
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I can be for human rights and against war. I just dislike how we are very selectively the world's policeman. We could just as easily start wars for "human rights" in Sudan, Congo, Rwanda, Myanmar...
But we don't because we don't have other interests there, which I don't have to spell out.

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11-15-2002 10:02 PM

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tack
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at least we can all agree, everybody hates fags here

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11-15-2002 10:02 PM

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euphorbia
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quote:
Originally posted by Tak
I can be for human rights and against war. I just dislike how we are very selectively the world's policeman. We could just as easily start wars for "human rights" in Sudan, Congo, Rwanda, Myanmar...
But we don't because we don't have other interests there, which I don't have to spell out.

Oh no sir...you aren�t slipping out that easy...you said you thought they could "live their life" and "you�d live yours" in response to gays being stoned for sport...as if it has something to do with culture and that made it alright or some other equally flawed reasoning. Bah, what�s the point�futile as usual. I would speak out for your right to bugger other consenting men with out being murdered for it though�no matter what country you were from...and not just pass it off as the right of a government to oppress you (in the name of culture!!???).

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11-15-2002 10:11 PM

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SocialParasite
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quote:

gays being stoned for sport

*tweeeeet*

I'm calling foul. They aren't stoned for sport, they're stoned for breaking fundie Islamic law. Fundie Christians would be just as quick to stone a gay man (because it's an abomination and all). Saying they are stoned for sport is like saying we execute murderers for sport (well, excluding the state of Texas).

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11-15-2002 10:14 PM

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euphorbia
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SocialParasite

Fundie Christians would be just as quick to stone a gay man (because it's an abomination and all).

you say this but where does it happen SP? What, did one guy do it once one time? And if he did IT WOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW. Surely you have to have some shame, jumping in with this sort of thing endlessly never with anything to back it up? And I�m not talking about 40 90 a thousand years ago k? I�m talking about now.

Saying they are stoned for sport is like saying we execute murderers for sport (well, excluding the state of Texas).

If THE GOVERNMENT did it in arenas for entertainment and scare tactic for anything less than murder, like Running Man, sure it would be the same.

Last edited by euphorbia on 11-15-2002 at 10:36 PM

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11-15-2002 10:20 PM

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SocialParasite
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quote:

Surely you have to have some shame, jumping in with this sort of thing endlessly never with anything to back it up?

I have shame, just not right now.

The thing is that it's legal to stone a gay man in the extremist Islam states, but here it isn't legal to kill someone on your own. You have to have them sentenced to death. I would say if you go back to the days of the Puritans and early colonial America you would find some instances where someone was put to death for being gay. That's not 40 to 90 thousand years ago. That's, like, 500 years ago. Historically speaking, that is close enough to "now." Society has changed a lot since then (well, some parts).

Sometimes you have to look in the past to find the answers for now.

quote:

f THE GOVERNMENT did it in arenas for entertainment and scare tactic,

Isn't that the whole point of the death penalty? A scare tactic?

And the arena? Isn't there a select few people that get to sit in a gallery and watch the execution for THEIR OWN SATISFACTION?

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11-15-2002 10:31 PM

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euphorbia
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Its just fucking futile. I dont even know why I fucking try. :spin:

so when did logic die? RIP

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11-15-2002 10:39 PM

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euphorbia
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I considered making my new sig a public service announcement, something to the extent of "Social P and Tak support the stoning of gay men as long as they arent white or living in the west" but I reconsidered.

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11-15-2002 10:42 PM

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SocialParasite
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quote:
Originally posted by euphorbia
Its just fucking futile. I dont even know why I fucking try. :spin:

so when did logic die? RIP

I don't know, either.

Don't take everything so seriously. It'll keep you alive a few more years. I'd like to have that Jell-O match, ya know.

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11-15-2002 10:42 PM

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SocialParasite
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quote:
Originally posted by euphorbia
I considered making my new sig a public service announcement, something to the extent of "Social P and Tak support the stoning of gay men as long as they are white or living in the west" but I reconsidered.

And that would be grossly inacurate to the point of slander.

I do not support the stoning of anyone. I'm opposed to the death penalty except for extreme cases, and then it would have to be deliberated on for longer than an hour.

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11-15-2002 10:44 PM

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tack
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i considered making my sig a public service announcement, something to the extent of "Nobody likes a dirty negroid!" but I reconsidered

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11-15-2002 10:48 PM

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Paint CHiPs
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So homosexuals will start WWIII?

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11-15-2002 11:27 PM

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squee
the amen break

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Tak is right in that the US does NOT usually enter conflict for ethical or moral reasons. This doesn't mean that we enter them for amoral or unethical reasons--merely that we cite our national interests as justification for war. This whole Afghanistan thing (and subsequently, Iraq) has done a lot for military recruitment because it's all being pitched as having to do with truth, justice, and the American way, versus oil (a la Gulf War) or fishing rights (a la 1812) or something.

That said, Tak, do you believe in the human rights issue or not? Because if you're pointing to the US's failure to get into conflicts over morals as a reason for skepticism over what Phorbie's saying, that's just pointless cynicism

Social: Not sure what your point is. Yeah, some of the fundies are pretty extreme...this has been established already...are you saying then that we shouldn't condemn their brand of retardation internationally? Same cynicism as Tak. It does not serve.

4B: Good points. But you're right, you need to relax (you even sound stressed on the phone).

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11-16-2002 12:18 AM

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SocialParasite
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quote:

Not sure what your point is.

That was the whole idea, really.

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11-16-2002 12:24 AM

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euphorbia
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quote:
Originally posted by squee
(you even sound stressed on the phone).

sorry, I hope I wasnt rude sounding.

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11-16-2002 12:30 AM

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A.D.H.D
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I just hope that any decision by America doesn't indirectly lead to Australia giving troups in the middle east. I hate to see Australian lives wasted, fighting a war which really has nothing to do with us, other than our ally with America, which has put us as the target for attacks.

How many civilians are going to die this time, to ensure that human rights are upheld?

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