Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 4501

I just joined a listserv recently, comprised of Writing Program administrators, teachers, and wannabes, across the nation. Some debates surrounding the potential war started before I was logged on, seemingly leaning toward a national movement of Teachers Against War. One professor made the remark that it should be more aptly called "Teachers Against This War," since many did not protest any of Clinton's activities. One professor argued back that our students were only 13 at the time, which was a silly argument to make in response to TEACHERS not protesting Clinton-era wars. Rather changes the terms of the debate.

The same simplistic arguments fly back and forth on both sides. But in the process of arguing something which we cannot change, the rhetoric of respect for our students has disappeared. Apparently, they're too blinded by the media to make up their own minds, and need the support of various campus teach-ins, biased toward peace, as well as their left-leaning professors, to show them the truth. The "war mongers" are largely silent at this time, which surprises me. Surely, they could hold their own teach-ins to inform students of different perspectives.

The truth is that there is not enough information for us to make up our minds fairly. At best, we speculate, we look for patterns from history, we seek what is hidden between the lines in the news.

The following is a letter I wrote to the listserv, partially in defense of open intellectual markets and of student rights:

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New to the list, new to the discussion, but from what I've seen so far, I have to go with Stephen's point of view. Yes, indeed, our students were too young to protest Kosova, but when I look around at the older crew, I see a lot of new faces in the protest movement. People who were content to speculate about Kosova, grumble a few remarks here and there, but nothing this substantial.

So far, I am neutral on the issue of this war, because I do not feel that I have enough facts to decide. I fully realize the horror that the Iraqi people suffer, especially those who exercise a right we all love: freedom of speech. I mourn already for lost lives on all sides. I worry about the potential imperial activities that could occur. I feel, however, that the platitude "blood for oil" limits the realm of engagement, shutting down critical analysis of the situation.

I'm hoping that if folk are anti-war, and choose to share those views with their students, that they do so in a way that does not alienate them. I have noticed that most of my students are for the war, even those enrolled in the National Guard, the Reserves, and those who have finished active military duty, those who stand to lose far more than we do. Their decision to be in favor of war and/or to serve their country has not been made because they are too blind to see past the media, or because they fawn on Bush. They are critically engaged in researching the details behind the war, and have taken the stance they feel best, just as those who are anti-war do.

I was heartened to see two opposing sides here in Carbondale, IL, protesting peacefully. Although the media would lead us to believe that they begrudged each other's existence, there was generally respect on both sides for the opposition. Peace signs were raised on one side of the street and "Support our Troups" on the other. Motorists honked as they drove past, and it was hard to tell who favored what side. Whether we are for or against war, live troops, including our students, will be engaged abroad. For this reason, I ask for respectful rhetoric in classroom discussions across the nation.

For that matter, why do we have Teach-Ins biased in favor of peace, and not have some in favor of war? As university professors and instructors, I would think it is our duty to encourage students to seek all forms of the truth before settling their minds. Surely, we're not afraid of testing our views against an open intellectual market.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: way out west
Posts: 138

Good letter. I liked these two sentences in particular:

quote:

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I feel, however, that the platitude "blood for oil" limits the realm of engagement, shutting down critical analysis of the situation.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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I'll likely be black-balled during the job search process. Better an honest asshole than a yes-man, though.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

Agreed. Well-handled. The "open marketplace of ideas" does not have a great deal of currency in the academy at the moment, though. Your opinion will not prove popular; you will have to settle for it being correct.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

Not directly related, but the student union at my college have just voted not to recognise a 'justice for Palestine' society, even though it doesn't break any of their rules and has the requisite number of names on the petition, etc. Union recognition is important for a variety of reasons (facilities, right to advertise, etc).

Interesting. By the standards of typical student union politics, anyway.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
Not directly related, but the student union at my college have just voted not to recognise a 'justice for Palestine' society, even though it doesn't break any of their rules and has the requisite number of names on the petition, etc. Union recognition is important for a variety of reasons (facilities, right to advertise, etc).

Interesting. By the standards of typical student union politics, anyway.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Damn, smug...that's an unfortunate decision on their part. Just to see what happens, you and some mates ought to try to put through a petition for something like a Necrophilia Society, or a Society Devoted to John Waters' Pink Flamingos. See if it flies.

Update on the response to my email...most folks won't touch it with a ten-foot pole, but the guy who is trying to get this whole movement going (with an accompanying website and lesson plans!) sent an email to me and the two professors who sort of disagreed with the idea. Effectively (how I wish I could report his exact wording), he stated that we, of course, have the right to not be anti-war (was that even the contention?), but that if he offered opposing viewpoints on his website, it would damage his position.

He had no response to the calls for respect of student rights, opinions, or situations. Apparently, that wasn't important enough for him to think about further. I'm likely making an unfair assumption there. Someone else made the comment that we had the obligation to make sure that students were educated in socially-appropriate ways of thinking (to whom? in what context?).

Long live the blind, deaf, and dumb of higher education!

Notice, please, that I am not proposing that people take one view or another, but that we have an obligation as members of the university community to ensure that freedom of thought is truly honored, not merely paid lip service.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10121

quote:

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Originally posted by bunkum
...socially-appropriate ways of thinking....

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

quote:

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Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Which college? Not Princeton, surely...

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: way out west
Posts: 138

quote:

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Someone else made the comment that we had the obligation to make sure that students were educated in socially-appropriate ways of thinking

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Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Harm's Way
Posts: 557

PHD = Piled High and Deep.

Academia is an infinite fountain of bad ideas.

Here's how the trajectory goes: primary school --> secondary school --> high school --> college/university ---> professorship.

The univerisity system evolved from the monastic systems of the middle ages. They are sequestered monks. They are disqualified from having anything to say about the "outside" world because most of them have never experienced it outside of a book or some kind of structured exposure.

For anyone to have any kind of academic credentials, they should be able to prove at least five years experience in business, manual labor, union-skill-based work, or military service, preferably with combat experience.

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Registered: Apr 2001
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Awesome bunkum. My respect overfloweth.

when I grow up I wanna be just like joooo (only with out the whole anal warts thing)

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taste the fucking rainbow

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack the Bagman
For anyone to have any kind of academic credentials, they should be able to prove at least five years experience in business, manual labor, union-skill-based work, or military service, preferably with combat experience.

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Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Harm's Way
Posts: 557

quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
Every string theorist should have at least 3 kills under his belt, sure.

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Ok, maybe only meet those requirements to be allowed into the realm of social/political advocacy.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Didn't you get hemorrhoids while pregnant, phorbs? I thought that was part of the deal. I don't know where this fucker came from...probably stupid people in the university system stressing me out.

FYI, Jack, I agree tentatively with some of your ideas. Most of the "out-of-touch" types in our department went straight through school without taking any leave to work outside of the university. Several have never had to work, and teaching was their first job. Yikes.

I found out how the "Poets Against War" reading went on campus last week; apparently, it was mostly performance art, and some people cried while reciting their wretched verse about dead Iraqi babies, crushed under Bush's foot.

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Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:

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Originally posted by bunkum
[B]Didn't you get hemorrhoids while pregnant, phorbs? I thought that was part of the deal.

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taste the fucking rainbow

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Rio de los Brazos de Dios
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Only as an observation and one that may be faulty it appears to this old fart that most of the anti-war peacenik type demonstration is coming not from the students but from the faculties. And bear in mind that today's PhDs are Vietnam's students so it is the same old bunch of people.

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Don't kick until yer spurred.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Ivory Tower, USA
Posts: 1485

quote:

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Originally posted by oxsan
And bear in mind that today's PhDs are Vietnam's students so it is the same old bunch of people.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Ivory Tower, USA
Posts: 1485

Bunkum--You note that you've just joined the listserv, yet seem miffed by the lack of response. With a regional university's return address and no history behind your name, it seems to me that many would simply view you as a fly-by or troll, rather than someone interested in honest discourse.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Good point, Agoust, though it's more likely that they would consider me a flyby, since I included all of my institution, position, and contact details in my email sig (which I don't expect you to know, since I didn't copy/paste all that in my message up there. )

On a side note, I just remembered that I accidentally deleted your email a while back, before I got a chance to send that reading list in creativity research to you. Are you still interested?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Ivory Tower, USA
Posts: 1485

Hey Bunk--yeah, that'd be great. Check your pms.

[that sounds funny!]

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