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skalie
the honourable

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

Robert Fisk on the market bombing.

This article is currently being discussed on the BBC, warning graphic imagry.

The bombing was on the front page of all the arabic papers, btw, and also on the cover of the Daily Mirror I heard.



Robert Fisk: 'It was an outrage, an obscenity'

27 March 2003


It was an outrage, an obscenity. The severed hand on the metal door, the swamp of blood and mud across the road, the human brains inside a garage, the incinerated, skeletal remains of an Iraqi mother and her three small children in their still-smouldering car.

Two missiles from an American jet killed them all – by my estimate, more than 20 Iraqi civilians, torn to pieces before they could be 'liberated' by the nation that destroyed their lives. Who dares, I ask myself, to call this 'collateral damage'? Abu Taleb Street was packed with pedestrians and motorists when the American pilot approached through the dense sandstorm that covered northern Baghdad in a cloak of red and yellow dust and rain yesterday morning.

It's a dirt-poor neighbourhood, of mostly Shia Muslims, the same people whom Messrs Bush and Blair still fondly hope will rise up against President Saddam Hussein, a place of oil-sodden car-repair shops, overcrowded apartments and cheap cafés. Everyone I spoke to heard the plane. One man, so shocked by the headless corpses he had just seen, could say only two words. "Roar, flash," he kept saying and then closed his eyes so tight that the muscles rippled between them.

How should one record so terrible an event? Perhaps a medical report would be more appropriate. But the final death toll is expected to be near to 30 and Iraqis are now witnessing these awful things each day; so there is no reason why the truth, all the truth, of what they see should not be told.

For another question occurred to me as I walked through this place of massacre yesterday. If this is what we are seeing in Baghdad, what is happening in Basra and Nasiriyah and Kerbala? How many civilians are dying there too, anonymously, indeed unrecorded, because there are no reporters to be witness to their suffering?

Abu Hassan and Malek Hammoud were preparing lunch for customers at the Nasser restaurant on the north side of Abu Taleb Street. The missile that killed them landed next to the westbound carriageway, its blast tearing away the front of the café and cutting the two men – the first 48, the second only 18 – to pieces. A fellow worker led me through the rubble. "This is all that is left of them now," he said, holding out before me an oven pan dripping with blood.

At least 15 cars burst into flames, burning many of their occupants to death. Several men tore desperately at the doors of another flame-shrouded car in the centre of the street that had been flipped upside down by the same missile. They were forced to watch helplessly as the woman and her three children inside were cremated alive in front of them. The second missile hit neatly on the eastbound carriageway, sending shards of metal into three men standing outside a concrete apartment block with the words, "This is God's possession" written in marble on the outside wall.

The building's manager, Hishem Danoon, ran to the doorway as soon as he heard the massive explosion. "I found Ta'ar in pieces over there," he told me. His head was blown off. "That's his hand." A group of young men and a woman took me into the street and there, a scene from any horror film, was Ta'ar's hand, cut off at the wrist, his four fingers and thumb grasping a piece of iron roofing. His young colleague, Sermed, died the same instant. His brains lay piled a few feet away, a pale red and grey mess behind a burnt car. Both men worked for Danoon. So did a doorman who was also killed.

As each survivor talked, the dead regained their identities. There was the electrical shop-owner killed behind his counter by the same missile that cut down Ta'ar and Sermed and the doorman, and the young girl standing on the central reservation, trying to cross the road, and the truck driver who was only feet from the point of impact and the beggar who regularly called to see Mr Danoon for bread and who was just leaving when the missiles came screaming through the sandstorm to destroy him.

In Qatar, the Anglo-American forces – let's forget this nonsense about "coalition" – announced an inquiry. The Iraqi government, who are the only ones to benefit from the propaganda value of such a bloodbath, naturally denounced the slaughter, which they initially put at 14 dead. So what was the real target? Some Iraqis said there was a military encampment less than a mile from the street, though I couldn't find it. Others talked about a local fire brigade headquarters, but the fire brigade can hardly be described as a military target.

Certainly, there had been an attack less than an hour earlier on a military camp further north. I was driving past the base when two rockets exploded and I saw Iraqi soldiers running for their lives out of the gates and along the side of the highway. Then I heard two more explosions; these were the missiles that hit Abu Taleb Street.

Of course, the pilot who killed the innocent yesterday could not see his victims. Pilots fire through computer-aligned co-ordinates, and the sandstorm would have hidden the street from his vision. But when one of Malek Hammoud's friends asked me how the Americans could so blithely kill those they claimed to want to liberate, he didn't want to learn about the science of avionics or weapons delivery systems.

And why should he? For this is happening almost every day in Baghdad. Three days ago, an entire family of nine was wiped out in their home near the centre of the city. A busload of civilian passengers were reportedly killed on a road south of Baghdad two days ago. Only yesterday were Iraqis learning the identity of five civilian passengers slaughtered on a Syrian bus that was attacked by American aircraft close to the Iraqi border at the weekend.

The truth is that nowhere is safe in Baghdad, and as the Americans and British close their siege in the next few days or hours, that simple message will become ever more real and ever more bloody.

We may put on the hairshirt of morality in explaining why these people should die. They died because of 11 September, we may say, because of President Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction", because of human rights abuses, because of our desperate desire to "liberate" them all. Let us not confuse the issue with oil. Either way, I'll bet we are told President Saddam is ultimately responsible for their deaths. We shan't mention the pilot, of course.
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Old Post 03-27-2003 12:17 PM
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Smug Git
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I bet that Robert Fisk has run to Baghdad to escape the righteous wroth of John Malkovich (I seem to recall that Malkovich said that he wanted to kill Fisk, expressing, in his own way, his disagreement with what Fisk writes).

Saddam will be hoping for a hell of a lot more of this stuff, being as it motivates his people (who aren't going to blame him when we are launcing the bombs); we will obviously be hoping for a lot less of it, particularly in light of our aftermath plans.

Everyone but Saddam and his circle must hope that it ends soon.

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Old Post 03-27-2003 12:25 PM
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Smug Git
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Link to the Fisk article about the Malkovich 'threat' (Phil posted this here before, as I recall).

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Old Post 03-27-2003 12:30 PM
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Smug Git
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We are now saying that all of our missiles hit their targets and none went astray, and suggesting again that it might have been an Iraqi missile.

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Old Post 03-27-2003 01:53 PM
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Ndrangheta
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Fisk is a cunt. He has been blatantly and overtly against this war from the beginning. That is not a problem in itself, but it is when you are a journalist reporting on matters that demand an objective approach. He lacks that completely, and I don't like his style. Cult of personality in other words.

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Old Post 03-27-2003 02:55 PM
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Ndrangheta
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Doesn't have to be a missile. It could be a bomb (or two) There were reported to be two explosions.

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Old Post 03-27-2003 02:56 PM
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MstrG
The Talamasca

Registered: Jul 2000
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The coalition has been very up front about its mistakes, including the bombing of the Syrian bus and the fratricide incidents. For them to now completely deny having sent missiles anywhere near this market is a strong indication it was caused by Iraq, either intentionally, or from AA falling back to ground (though it would seem AA wouldn't do that much damage unless there was a large concentration of it.)

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Old Post 03-27-2003 05:16 PM
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Goatboy
the anticlimax

Registered: Jul 2000
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While I don't accept AA at all, I don't accept either that the coalition forces are deliberatly hiding this either.

Like was said, that truth will come out sooner or later.

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Old Post 03-27-2003 05:27 PM
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skalie
the honourable

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
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quote:
Fisk

Everyone I spoke to heard the plane.




Edit: hang on, AA means anti-aircraft or not? crap post then.

With statements like that, if it wasn't a coalition action gone horribly wrong, he's going to lose every last piece of credibilty that he ever had, or not?

Last edited by skalie on 03-27-2003 at 06:40 PM

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Old Post 03-27-2003 06:10 PM
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Nutrimentia
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Pacifica hosts a program called DemocracyNow and a recent show (3/25) has/ is an interview with Fisk. I'm not sure if the whole hour is Fisk or not; I haven't listened to it. The link to the mp3 download is on the page, but here is a direct link if anyone is interested.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 12:13 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by MstrG
The coalition has been very up front about its mistakes, including the bombing of the Syrian bus and the fratricide incidents. For them to now completely deny having sent missiles anywhere near this market is a strong indication it was caused by Iraq, either intentionally, or from AA falling back to ground (though it would seem AA wouldn't do that much damage unless there was a large concentration of it.)


Never believe anything until its officially denied.

I dont see how one can make the assumption that this deinal (given past record) implies that we are telling the truth. It seems to me to negate political considerations completely and also negate that we are engaged in a propaganda war as much as the other side. I'm not saying they are definitely lying btw, more that I thinkits unwise to say that they are telling the truth.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 01:58 AM
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MstrG
The Talamasca

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I'm saying they have shown to be very open about their mistakes. They also say the investigation continues and haven't offered an official denial. The leading possibility right now seems to be Iraqi SAMs.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 04:15 AM
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Nutrimentia
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It doesn't seem to me that they have much to gain by denying something that they did. There is a lot of this war that probably isn't very easy to expose, but this doesn't seem to be one that would be easy to cover up, and the political costs of getting caught in a lie aren't worth the risks, I bet.

The only strategy that I can imagine being used to try to brush costly deeds under the rug would be to maintain a state of ambivalence long enough for something else bigger to draw attention away. I am not saying I think that is the case here.

Nice sig, MstrG, but if I remember correctly, didn't that guy turn out to be a criminal who violated the uniform and position he claimed to protect?

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Old Post 03-28-2003 05:28 AM
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skalie
the honourable

Registered: Sep 2001
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Article here, titled
U.S. Confirms Firing Missiles Into Iraqi Neighborhood.

Once again...

quote:

But he admits "something" landed in the district -- and he doesn't know if it was a U.S. missile that missed its target, or an Iraqi one that fell back to the ground.



The following type of statement from the link, however, should surely be avoided.

quote:

Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said it's proof that Iraq's leaders "clearly could not care less" about civilian lives.



Er, the Iraq's leaders aren't bombing the fuck out of Iraq. The coalition forces are. That is the direct cause of civilian deaths.

Well that's pretty much how a citizen of Baghdad that's just had his head blown off would see it.

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Old Post 03-28-2003 06:35 AM
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Nutrimentia
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This was in the article twice:

quote:
The Pentagon denies that coalition forces targeted the residential area


I don't doubt that for a second. There is absolutely nothing to gain from targeting civilians and the coalition is doing its damnedest to avoid kiling more than is unavoidable. But they won't submit to refusing to fire on military targets because civilians are in the vicinity. I don't like it, but I can't argue with the military strategy. They are doing the best they can.

I saw a BBC report this morning that said British troops have seen Iraqi soldiers firing on Bagra civilians trying to leave the city. It was unconfirmed at the time and I haven't watched any news since then. It looks to me like the Iraqis are trying to hide among the civilian population to increase the body count to swing favor against the coalition, a pretty despicable thing.

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Old Post 03-29-2003 08:34 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

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quote:
Originally posted by MstrG
I'm saying they have shown to be very open about their mistakes.


like the Chinese Embassy 'accident' you mean?

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Old Post 03-29-2003 08:52 AM
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