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Itch
De Oppresso Liber

Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
Posts: 543

Thanks, Brits

As another thread so aptly states, the British help in operation Iraqi Freedom and current pro-US posturing is indeed in Britains own best interests, a word of thanks, from this American anways, is due.

Brits are fighting and dying for a cause that America is championing. In the midst of so much anti-french hooplah, I don't think we should forget or take for granted, our allies.

I am so impressed with what I have seen of Tony Blair that I almost wish he could run for vice president. Not that I agree with his domestic policies, but his steadfast support of America, his ability to articulate a message and his succinctly British manner all make him quite likeable.

Blair and Bush seem to make a hell of a team. Bush has the clarity of purpose, the no-frills straight talk and even a bit of a "don't even ask any stupid fucking questions" temperment. Blair has the way with words, a talent to articulate, elucidate and even expand on points. Where Bush is straight and simple, Blair allows for proportionate complexity. He seems also far more compassionate and tolerant than Bush.

Something that has crossed my mind about Bush is that the admistration seems extremely sincere and trustworthy. They ooze security and confidence. You feel safe with the world in their hands, and even doubts about Bushes intellectual prowess are soothed by the fact that he has perhaps a dream-team administration around him. Looking at Blair, he gives the same kind of feeling. Weird as it sounds, Blair almost seems like a sorely needed element of Bushes administration. Where just about everyone in Bushes adminstration gives off the "shut up and sit down" impression- everyone from Franks, to Rumsfeld to Bush himself, Blair is far more engaging and interactive.

I coulden't imagine the US having a better ally now than the UK and I coulden't imagine the UK (from our point of veiw) having a better Prime Minister.

In the current and growing American hegamony, Britain assures herself of far more than the ear of the President, but an extremely vital seat at the table and the immesne global influence that comes with it.

So, in closing- on behalf of all Americans our condolences for those of you have have died fighting to liberate Iraq, you guys fight like devils but uphold the most stringent standards of chivalry and professionalism- exemplary soldiers in all respects.

Thanks Brits.

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It only makes sense then that those who want to be free choose to also be the ones who use force. Why? Because freedom is better. It's that simple.

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03-28-2003 07:57 PM

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pj
Captain America

Registered: Jan 2001
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thats nice of you to say such things.
Blair has beenthe centre of much hatred ever since he took his stance on Iraq, and people over here do think of him as Bush's puppet. Personally i think he is the best PM my country has had in my lifetime. But i dont like Bush, and i think Blair brings some common sense to Bush's decision making to an extent.

i still think that we should be able to live in your country without need for a green card though

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03-28-2003 08:27 PM

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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

quote:
Originally posted by pj

i still think that we should be able to live in your country without need for a green card though

And vice versa.

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03-28-2003 08:38 PM

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SimpleSimon
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Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by pj
thats nice of you to say such things.....

i still think that we should be able to live in your country without need for a green card though

Simple.

Force the Queen to abdicate, abolish the crown, and apply for territorial status. As soon as that is confirmed by Congress, problem solved. Of course, until we can find a counterbalancing territory (politically speaking) to you bunch of semi-socialist wankers, we cannot entertain the idea of full statehood for you.

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03-28-2003 09:42 PM

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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
Simple.

Force the Queen to abdicate, abolish the crown, and apply for territorial status. As soon as that is confirmed by Congress, problem solved. Of course, until we can find a counterbalancing territory (politically speaking) to you bunch of semi-socialist wankers, we cannot entertain the idea of full statehood for you.

Picture it:
North Alabama, South Alabama, North Mississippi, South Mississippi, West Tennessee, East Tennessee, East Texas, Central Texas, West Texas, New Hampshire, Old Hampshire.

At least they'd hold the Senate. Why should Carolina, Virginia and Dakota be the only states with 4 Senators each?

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03-28-2003 10:12 PM

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Smug Git
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I suspect that 60 million new people who, by far, would vote democrat, wouldn't be great news for the republicans. Senate votes might only be 2 (although I suspect that Wales and Scotland would want to be seperate states) but the electoral college would gain a new Florida, with many more electoral college votes. That voted democrat.

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03-28-2003 10:19 PM

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A.D.H.D
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

Registered: Jan 2001
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Posts: 3607

What about Australia's contribution?

not that you probably know we've made a contribution. I guess it's more of a token contriubution anwway, two massive battleships, 2000 troops many of whom, special forces. etc etc

blah

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03-28-2003 11:28 PM

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mmmtravis
T-Raz w/ the freaky freak

Registered: May 2002
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You realize that if we annexed you limeys that you would have to start calling your football soccer, right?

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03-28-2003 11:40 PM

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urbanjunkie
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Registered: Sep 2000
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!

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03-28-2003 11:52 PM

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skalie
the honourable

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

quote:

Something that has crossed my mind about Bush is that the administration seems extremely sincere and trustworthy.

Just watched his latest speech, seemed to me to be a recurring pattern of "lie, smirk, orchestrated applause".

But that's just me I guess.

Edit; maybe not just me, ten minutes after typing that there appeared a piece about anti-war protest in the Middle East on the BBC

"Mr Bush, I have message, you are liar, you have no evidence".

The observation that "the Bush administration seems extremely sincere and trustworthy" is not universally held.

Which truely is a shame.

Last edited by skalie on 03-29-2003 at 01:56 AM

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03-29-2003 01:34 AM

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Dingle
Prison Rapemaster

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 10229

quote:
Originally posted by A.D.H.D
What about Australia's contribution?

not that you probably know we've made a contribution. I guess it's more of a token contriubution anwway, two massive battleships, 2000 troops many of whom, special forces. etc etc

blah

Did they send the Elite Dingo Brigade or the Wallaby War Battalion?

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03-29-2003 02:29 AM

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SimpleSimon
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Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
I suspect that 60 million new people who, by far, would vote democrat, wouldn't be great news for the republicans. Senate votes might only be 2 (although I suspect that Wales and Scotland would want to be seperate states) but the electoral college would gain a new Florida, with many more electoral college votes. That voted democrat.

Quite so.

We'd have to annex say, Argentina, just to offset you guys.

Thus, no statehood for you, as we really don't want Argentina.

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03-29-2003 05:21 AM

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Itch
De Oppresso Liber

Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
Posts: 543

quote:
Originally posted by A.D.H.D
What about Australia's contribution?

not that you probably know we've made a contribution. I guess it's more of a token contriubution anwway, two massive battleships, 2000 troops many of whom, special forces. etc etc

blah

The Aussies are not to be spared well-earned gratitude- and yes I am quite aware of their contribution- however, while thanks is due all Nations who provide support- especially military support, it is in my mind a requirement to thanks those peoples who have suffered losses. I am posting thanks as the various forces take casualties.

In any case, thanks to the Aussies too.

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03-29-2003 06:32 AM

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Itch
De Oppresso Liber

Registered: Jul 2001
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Posts: 543

quote:
Originally posted by skalie
Just watched his latest speech, seemed to me to be a recurring pattern of "lie, smirk, orchestrated applause".

But that's just me I guess.

Edit; maybe not just me, ten minutes after typing that there appeared a piece about anti-war protest in the Middle East on the BBC

"Mr Bush, I have message, you are liar, you have no evidence".

The observation that "the Bush administration seems extremely sincere and trustworthy" is not universally held.

Which truely is a shame.

While I would agree that the veiw of Bush and his administration as "utmost sincere and trustworthy" is not universally held, the overwhelming majority of Americans do indeed support Bush. Unless we are going to enter into conspiracy theories concerning the poll numbers etc. If more than an extremist fringe of some 10% said they strongly disapproved of the job Bush is doing than I would not at all be justified in making even the general and unqualified statement that Bush oozes trustworthyness etc etc.

I was really just trying to say that there is a good vibe in general- in America- about Bush and his administration and that vibe is only ampliphied by the close involvement with Tony Blair.

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03-29-2003 06:38 AM

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Itch
De Oppresso Liber

Registered: Jul 2001
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Posts: 543

quote:
Originally posted by Dingle
Did they send the Elite Dingo Brigade or the Wallaby War Battalion?

Not to be anal, but the Australian Army Special Forces Group is no joke and has a distinguished history, including helping to pull US Special Forces out of the fire during Operation Anaconda. The Aussies are an essential part of Iraqi Freedom as well as Enduring Freedom.

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03-29-2003 06:57 AM

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skalie
the honourable

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

quote:

the overwhelming majority of Americans do indeed support Bush.

Which is understandable, it makes good sense to support one's president in times of war. ( I personally don't believe being anti-war is being unpatriotic, but I am sure that there would be areas of America that doesn't share that sentiment).

What I do find important though is that world opinion gets behind Bush.

Rumsfield has just recently made hints that Syria has made an act of hostility with the night goggle affair, fueling the idea that the US has plans to take out a few more Arabs lands in this campaign.

That is pissing off a serious number of Arabs, they are not resorting to terrorist actions (Edit: "yet"), they are, in the eyes of most of the world, simply defending their own homes.

Bush is viewed as an "invader" as the agressor in this conflict and his aim of regime change is considered to be on the dubious side when it comes to international law.

Saddam on the other hand is sitting in some bunker somewhere drinking tea scoring mega-points with the Iraqi public everytime a market gets accidently wiped out.

Make no mistake, I would much rather live under western or American style rule than under the likes of what rules the rabble of the Middle East at the moment, I just don't want an entire religion hating me for wanting that.

Last edited by skalie on 03-29-2003 at 10:26 AM

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03-29-2003 07:17 AM

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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

Re: Thanks, Brits

quote:
Originally posted by Itch
Brits are fighting and dying for a cause that America is championing.

no were not itch. We're fighting and dying because.....

quote:
Originally posted by Itch
in the current and growing American hegemony, Britain assures herself of far more than the ear of the President, but an extremely vital seat at the table and the immense global influence that comes with it.

don't be fooled into thinking the Foreign Office buys this crap about liberation for one minute.

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03-29-2003 08:45 AM

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Itch
De Oppresso Liber

Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
Posts: 543

Re: Re: Thanks, Brits

quote:
Originally posted by Phil
no were not itch. We're fighting and dying because.....

don't be fooled into thinking the Foreign Office buys this crap about liberation for one minute.

Well, my "thanks" wasn't to the foreign office so much as the public which I believe had (or should have!) something to do with its appointment, even if that "something" is voting those who do/did/will appoint it. To the Brits who are with us, most specificaly the soldiers. From my experience, soldiers don't feel to good about dying for "crap" or a seat at the American hegamony table. I guess I'd be suprised if most Brits thought of things in such a cold way.

I don't really see Iraqi liberation as "crap". The only viable way for the US to dominate the world via hegamony is for us to take action to free other nations. Representative Governments of free people tend to be alot more peacefull and profitable and friendly to us. The gap between rich and poor (one of the major 'stressors' that feed terrorism) is less. People are happy.

In the end, as much as relativists might hate it, it will come out that our form of government and society is "right" as it fullfills beyond anything else, the basic criteria of "right"....freedom, prosperity, peace, the most good for the most people.

I think alot of folks just fukin hate the idea that the American way is the right way. And its not even really the "American way", we just seem to be doing "it" the most.

You really want a seat at the table? Backing the US is really the most indirect way. The best. most direct way to compete with or even match us would be massive tax cuts and a very very friendly corporate environment. Its easy to hate the corporations but they generate money like nothing else can, and more money means better economy means greater global influence/bigger military etc etc etc. It only makes sense that if you want influence/power you need money and if you want money its best to create the conditions most condusive to the generation of money. Like we do.

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03-29-2003 05:04 PM

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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

Re: Re: Re: Thanks, Brits

quote:
Originally posted by Itch
Well, my "thanks" wasn't to the foreign office so much as the public which I believe had (or should have!) something to do with its appointment

The Foreign Office, nor MPs are chosen by 'the people'. They are chosen by their local constituency parties: thirty-five men in grubby raincoats or thirty- five women in silly hats. The further 'selection' process is equally a nonsense: there are only 630 MPs and a party with just over 300 MPs forms a government and of these 300, 100 are too old and too silly to be ministers and 100 too young and too callow. Therefore there are about 100 MPs to fill 100 government posts. Effectively no choice at all. The 'people' have bugger all to do with their appointment, and this does not even begin to consider how the Civil Service is 'selected' and put in 'power'.

quote:
From my experience, soldiers don't feel to good about dying for "crap" or a seat at the American hegamony table.

Its 'hegemony' itch. I corrected it once, but I am not doing it again. As for Britsh Armed Forces, they follow orders. They are not paid to think about the political consequences of what they do, nor are they paid to make personal moral judgements on those orders. If they are ordered to die for crap then they die for crap. Plain and simple.

quote:
I guess I'd be suprised if most Brits thought of things in such a cold way.

Clearly you don't know the history of this nation.

quote:
I don't really see Iraqi liberation as "crap". The only viable way for the US to dominate the world via hegamony is for us to take action to free other nations. Representative Governments of free people tend to be alot more peacefull and profitable and friendly to us.

how on earth can you be hegemonic if you simultaneously provide the means to be independent and sovereign from that hegemon?

quote:
In the end, as much as relativists might hate it, it will come out that our form of government and society is "right" as it fullfills beyond anything else, the basic criteria of "right"....freedom, prosperity, peace, the most good for the most people.

We said exactly the same thing back in the late 19th Century, minus the politic'sed bollocks about 'reletvists' thrown in for the purpose of making us 'look' all intellectual.

quote:
I think alot of folks just fukin hate the idea that the American way is the right way.

No, I just think a lot of 'folks' just fuckin hate supercillious pricks like you trying to be arrogant and making a complete fucking pigs dinner of it.

quote:
The best. most direct way to compete with or even match us would be massive tax cuts and a very very friendly corporate environment.

Well, British corporation tax is lower than yours by a long way. So your point is?

Last edited by philjit on 03-29-2003 at 11:57 PM

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03-29-2003 11:51 PM

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Itch
De Oppresso Liber

Registered: Jul 2001
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Posts: 543

I really was just trying to say thanks from the cirtizen of one nation to the citizens of another allied nation. I can argue all day and night but I really did sincerely just want to say thanks and I won't let you derail that message. If your best response to my thanks is to insult me than it is readily evident who the real prick is here. But thats as far as I'll go in taking your bait.

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03-30-2003 03:52 PM