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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

Politics RAVE and CLEAN-UP (legislation, not sordid memories)

There really, really needs to be a "drug thread" icon option available.




"Congress is considering two pieces of legislation that could effectively ban live music and dancing, while throwing innocent people like you in jail. If enacted, either bill could prevent you from hearing your favorite band or DJ live. Every musical style would be affected, including rock and roll, Hip Hop, country, and electronic music. The proposed laws could also shut down hemp festivals, circuit parties, and other events government officials don’t like. Both bills would allow overzealous prosecutors to send innocent people to jail for the crimes of others.

The two bills are the RAVE Act (H.R. 718) and the CLEAN-UP Act (H.R. 834). Both could be passed this year without your help.

The RAVE Act was first introduced last year in the Senate by Senator Joe Biden (D-DE). A House version was introduced by Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX). Thanks to the support of thousands of voters like you, Drug Policy Alliance and a coalition of friends and activists around the country was able to stop both bills last year. Unfortunately, supporters of the RAVE Act are even more determined to pass it this year. Rep. Howard Coble (R-NC) is sponsoring a new RAVE Act in the House. Additionally, Senator Biden has introduced a Senate version entitled the Illicit Drugs Anti-Proliferation Act.

If enacted, the RAVE Act would make it easier for the federal government to punish property owners for any drug offense that their customers commit – even if they work hard to stop such offenses. If enacted, nightclub and stadium owners would likely stop holding events – such as rock or Hip Hop concerts – in which even one person might use drugs. Because of its broad language, the proposed law would even potentially subject people to twenty years in federal prison if one or more of their guests smoked marijuana at their party or barbecue.

The CLEAN-UP Act was also first introduced last year, but it failed to make it out of committee. This year’s bill has over 60 co-sponsors and could become law without your help. Sponsored by Rep. Doug Ose (R-CA), the Clean, Learn, Educate, Abolish, and Undermine Production (CLEAN-UP) of Methamphetamines Act is largely an innocuous bill that provides more money and training for the clean up of illegal methamphetamine lab. Hidden within the bill, however, is a draconian section that could make dancing and live music federal crimes.

Section 305 of the CLEAN-UP Act stipulates that:

`Whoever, for a commercial purpose, knowingly promotes any rave, dance, music, or other entertainment event, that takes place under circumstances where the promoter knows or reasonably ought to know that a controlled substance will be used or distributed in violation of Federal law or the law of the place where the event is held, shall be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 9 years, or both.'

This provision will allow any concert promoter, event organizer, nightclub owner and arena or stadium owner to be fined and jailed, since a reasonable person would know some people use drugs at musical events.

Under both the RAVE Act and the CLEAN-UP Act, it doesn’t matter if the event promoter and property owner try to prevent people from using drugs. Nor does it matter if the vast majority of people attending the event are law-abiding citizens that want to listen to music not do drugs. If enacted, either bill could be used to shut down raves, circuit parties, marijuana rallies, unpopular music concerts, and any other event federal officials don’t like."




From the very obviously unbiased folks over at Drugpolicy.org, who, while being fanatically against The War on Drugs sometimes to the point where they get a little nutty, are at the very least a pretty good legislative watchdog group.

Opinions?

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Old Post 04-01-2003 04:04 AM
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RiZZ
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fuck that

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Old Post 04-01-2003 04:41 AM
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RiZZ
awsomeness incarnit

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more opinion to come

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Old Post 04-01-2003 04:42 AM
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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

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I have my own, but it got lost when Lucas crashed my computer. I'll wait and post some things later if they haven't been said already.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 04:48 AM
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Vegas
Title Town

Registered: Feb 2001
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I will die without live music. Seriously.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 05:38 AM
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madlucas
tv casualty

Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
I have my own, but it got lost when Lucas crashed my computer. I'll wait and post some things later if they haven't been said already.

so what you're saying is that because of me your computer crashed. and because your computer crashed you can't post your opinion. and because you can't post your opinion the masses will no longer be swayed to you political view. and that because people won't be swayed to your political view that this law will be passed and every drug sniffing teenager in the country will have to watch their backs whilst consuming narcotics in some warehouse while DJ meth-a-done spins some upity hip hop shit and blinds them with a $12 laser light show. is that about it?

sorry kids, to ruin your party. guess you'll just have to sniff your drugs and fornicate in the privacey of your own homes because I'm such a bad man who can afford a computer that won't crash everytime AIM sends a chat request. my bad.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 05:44 AM
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madlucas
tv casualty

Registered: Nov 2001
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p.s.

(I figured I should ad that so you I wouldn't be hit with 500 pm's from you people asking me what my problem is with paint .. even though he did point his stick at me first)

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Old Post 04-01-2003 05:47 AM
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Vegas
Title Town

Registered: Feb 2001
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What is amazing is how they are so interested in persecuting business owners of respectable establishments for something they cannot completely stop. Who will enforce these laws? That's one question I'd love to see answered.

There's little point in discussing reasonable actions the government could pursue first, so I will skip that.

This law is a stepping stone the government will use to take away even more of people's freedoms in this country. It began with the hearings on censorship in music and it's taken them nearly two decades to get to this point, and there is not much they have "accomplished" in that time period. Yes, there are advisory labels on albums with "innapropriate" content. Stores such as Walmart refuse to carry albums with said content, along with some that have been brought to their attention by concerned parents with, in their minds, good intentions. Is there a point to this law besides it being a step towards controlling the public? I can't think of one.

Laws like this stem from a few things. These people are afraid, they are misinformed, and they have the power to do something. In their minds they are doing the correct thing. To them, concerts could be a frightening thing: tales of sex, drugs, and rock n roll ecstacy in the midst of a gathering of dozens, hundreds, even thousands of people. I have to admit, I don't know how the rest of the country works, I don't really know what people are like outside of the northeast. There is little I can base the way of life up here, I can only repeat words others have brought to my attention from their own travels. I feel like people here are a lot more open-minded in a sense, they are more willing to try something new. I hear these stories of people I'd consider uptight in Utah, people with nothing to do in Nebraska, people with nothing but drugs in California, people who deep-fry Oreos in Texas, but how true is all of it? And furthermore, who are the people presenting these laws? I don't know the answers to those questions. What I do think is that these people are afraid of a sub-culture of misfits who will destroy their suburban communities, yet the people they will be affecting are their neighbors, the people they have cookouts with and wave to when passing by each other on an evening walk. These are the people they are trying to put a leash around, even though they think they're tightening a noose around some demon.

I'm not sure there is a way to get these people to see a different point of view on the issue. Their objective is clear, their determination is fueled, their motives are seen through a fog that blurs the truth, and what are we to do? There may be no way to show these people there is more to a rock n roll show than drugs, that not all ravers are popping pills left and right, and that this will do absolutely nothing in a "war on drugs." It will tighten the ropes holding us down, it will constrict their own, and it will make no difference where they want to.

Oh yeah, don't think the recording industry will sit back and watch this happen. If their artists don't tour, don't make any money that way, they won't sign to big companies because nobody will be able to find a happy medium. The fight for royalties, rights, and money will explode and either destroy the corporations (and yes, that means jobs). It may mean a "purer" form of music but it certainly does nothing for the economy and pisses off more suburbanites who no longer have a job.

As I stated in my above post, I'll die without live music. There is very little in this world that touches me so deeply as hearing the band on stage play that one fucking song I need to hear them play, to feel as alive as possible as the molecules of air flow around, the sound of the crowd, the crackle of speakers, and amidst all of it the purity of those notes as they hit my ears and make me as happy as I could possibly be for a few minutes. I don't do drugs, I'm not a huge fan of drinking. Music is a drug to me, I love being able to intoxicate myself with whatever flavor I feel like. Music touches every aspect of my life. I hear songs I want to dance to, songs I can't get enough of, songs I want to make love to, songs that remind me I have homework to do, songs that are incredible in the musicianship, songs that leave me bewildered on their unabashed message, songs that make me want to change myself, songs that make me want to change the world, songs to cry to and songs to celebrate only what I can imagine. There are only two things in my life that I can apply to everything I encounter, and one of them is music. Live music is essential to my life, it's experiencing art to me. Art in the sense of expression, someone else's expression is touching me and the people around me, we're all in it together. You can't take that away from me, you just can't.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 06:22 AM
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mmmtravis
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People in Texas deep fry Oreos?

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Old Post 04-01-2003 07:02 AM
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CHiPsJr
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Your best post ever, Vegas.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 07:11 AM
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J E B Stuart
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I haven't seen the precise text of the proposed legislation. Nevertheless, it's circumstances such as this that make me thankful for our system of checks and balances. For starters, I wouldn't be suprised if one of the major reasons it has failed to reach the president's desk is because in-house legal review has identified Constitutional "problems". Yes, I'm just guessing, but I think it's a damned good guess.

Even if it became "law", I think it another good wager that a hard challenge in the Courts would ensue. Point is, though our system falls short of perfection, I do have some faith in our Courts' willingness to protect us from overreaching legislation.

Amen.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 07:36 AM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by J E B Stuart

Even if it became "law", I think it another good wager that a hard challenge in the Courts would ensue. Point is, though our system falls short of perfection, I do have some faith in our Courts' willingness to protect us from overreaching legislation.



Are you a Patriot/Patriot II fan, though? Although I don't know if those have been put to the constitutional test yet.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 07:38 AM
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Vegas
Title Town

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Boston
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quote:
Originally posted by mmmsivart
People in Texas deep fry Oreos?


One of my friends is engaged to a gal from Texas, and she told me once she deep fried some Oreos and LIKED it. No BS here, either.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 03:41 PM
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oxsan
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We have been telling that Oreo story to gullible Yankees for years.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:15 PM
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Smug Git
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In Scotland and the North of England, they sell deep-fried Mars Bars, deep-fried Frozen pizza and also (so I hear) deep-fried ice-cream.

Yum.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:18 PM
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buddha's penis
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quote:
Originally posted by Vegas
I hear songs I want to dance to, songs I can't get enough of, songs I want to make love to, songs that remind me I have homework to do, songs that are incredible in the musicianship, songs that leave me bewildered on their unabashed message, songs that make me want to change myself, songs that make me want to change the world, songs to cry to and songs to celebrate only what I can imagine.


=man in the mirror, by michael jackson

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:30 PM
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Cage
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Registered: Aug 2000
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Fried ice cream is a beaner dessert. I've seen it at Mexican restuarants forever. Fiend'll probably show up and start shouting about how ice cream isn't Mexican or some shit, but it's definitely available in a lot of Mexican restaurants. Like oral sex. And herpes.

Apparently some fucking state fair has been doing deep-fried Twinkies for a while, now. Gotta respect that kind of commitment to obesity and heart attacks.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:33 PM
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Aydin
Rice King

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Nieve freído indeed

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:37 PM
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MstrG
The Talamasca

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Anyone here ever been to a Rave that didn't have loads of drugs available?

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:48 PM
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Dingle
Prison Rapemaster

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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what is with all the stupid threads like this. "The government wants to outlaw constitiutions" "The government wants to put everyone in jail who has a firewall" "The government wants to outlaw masturbation"

jesus christ, the government isnt gonna ban live concerts. take your drug fests and blow them out your ass.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:52 PM
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Fiend
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quote:
Originally posted by MstrG
Anyone here ever been to a Rave that didn't have loads of drugs available?


Oh yeah, there are dealers sellin drugs, walking around like vendors at baseball games.

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Old Post 04-01-2003 10:57 PM
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Vegas
Title Town

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Boston
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quote:
Originally posted by oxsan
We have been telling that Oreo story to gullible Yankees for years.


Do people think I'm joking or something? This girl flat out told me she deep fried some freakin Oreos and she loved it! I wouldn't doubt it, by her dimensions and apparent love for deep fried food from her home in Houston.

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Old Post 04-02-2003 01:14 AM
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