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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

Registered: Jul 2000
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Movies & Media Freddy Vs Jason

Been about twenty goddamned years in the making, due out this summer (August, I think?) and screening reviews are already starting to pour in.

I'm not a big horror buff (most horror movies are shite, I think), but I really grew up on these franchises. And, unlike most, I've always greatly preferred Jason to Freddy, though I'm not sure why. He's like the ultimate straight man, is maybe a way to put it (and I mean that in a joke way, not a fag way).

Granted, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable calling a single film in either series a "good" movie, but to me, that's always been part of their charm. There's a campiness to them, a degree of eye-rolling, mixed with a not-very-deeply buried prepubescent glee at seeing a movie basically based entirely on obligatory tit shots, goofy one-liners, and creative gore scenes. That they aren't particularly great movies by most standards of reviewing, as a rule, doesn't tend to bother me much when watching any of the movies in either series. It's equal parts laughing at as well as laughing with, that has made my past experiences with the movies so much fun.

So anyway, New Line has been sitting on the rights to it for years, until finally they got a director they were satisfied with (Ronny Yu, did Bride of Chucky and some well respected Hong Kong horror flicks that I haven't seen) and what they deemed a decent script. Movie is just finishing up post-production now (most of you should see trailers for it when you go see Matrix Reloaded). And fuck if I haven't been waiting to see this since I was 13 years old.

The screening reviews, to follow, are fairly mixed. Great gore, tits, kick ass fight scenes, weak and inexplicably elaborated subplots...about what you'd expect from a combination of the two franchises. But, with 2003 effects and budgets, as well as a competent director and full studio backing in line with a blockbuster rather than a B-level genre sequel flick. Anyway, I'm not going to go into it expecting a great movie per se, but rather, something on par with what one should expect from either franchise, with the bar being raised somewhat, and I suspect the movie, in that respect, will do me just fine.

Screening reviews to follow from Ain't it Cool News. Some light spoilers, as if that matters.




FREDDY VS. JASON (d. Ronny Yu, w. David S. Goyer, Damian Shannon, Mark Swift)

In the wake of Neill Cumpston’s media coming out party (for those of you who missed it, our Ritalin-deprived pride and joy got quoted by Howard Stern and Peter Travers last week), I feel inadequate to review this film. Now, don’t get me wrong here; I’m no elitist. I love the FRIDAY THE 13TH and NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET series with fairly equal ardor, though I must admit, by merit of its maiden installment – a genuine horror classic – Craven’s franchise has the prestige edge, especially since the best Jason movie, THE FINAL CHAPTER, is most noteworthy for Tom Savini’s go-for-broke gore f/x and Crispin Glover dancing to imitation 80’s synth-pop. But to fully convey the success or failure of the slasher film equivalent of KING KONG VS. GODZILLA (sans the culturally sensitive alternate endings), I feel almost required to bellow out a full-throated “This movie breaks into your bedroom and shits in your sock drawer while you’re passed out from a Cuervo-and-pussy binge with two diseased Haitian whores who carved Utah’s state motto onto your testicles with rusted pinking shears.”

That is, I would if the film deserved it.

Now, now... calm down. The movie’s fine. It’s exactly what we should expect from a film entitled FREDDY VS. JASON, and it’s actually much better than most of the sequels in each respective franchise. It’s quick, brutal and pretty tongue-in-cheek, and it doesn’t skimp on the promised serial killer throwdown. Yes, New Line finally stuck their ELM STREET chocolate in their FRIDAY THE 13TH peanut butter, and damn if it ain’t a taste delight with nearly every bite so long as the boys are hacking and slashing at one another. But there’s a sense that they could’ve done better. It seems that this project has been churning in the development digestive system since AICN’s ID4-background infancy (stories on FREDDY VS. JASON reach back all the way to November 1997). There’ve been reports both good and bad on the various scripts and treatments, the feeling always being that New Line was waiting for that perfect match of script and director to nail whatever quirky sensibility this pop-cultural mélange of murderous mayhem needed. After his modest success with BRIDE OF CHUCKY, Ronny Yu (a Hong Kong fan favorite for THE BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR) was deemed the project’s ringmaster, and, at long last, the film went before cameras. And while I fully expect the picture to be embraced by the fanboy faithful, the question will remain: was this *really* the best script they had?

The film kicks off with Freddy bringing us up to speed on his sorry situation. It seems folks on Elm Street have forgotten about him, and his banishment from their sub-conscious has put him out of business, leaving the poor child murderer kicking around the depths of Hell without a proper gig. But if these films have taught us anything, it’s that where there’s an undying psychopathic will, there’s a wholly implausible way, and Freddy finds it in the apparently immortal killing machine of Jason Vorhees, whom he transplants to his old Elm Street stomping grounds for some delinquent teen slayin’ fun. Sure enough, as soon as the first corpse turns up – a bravura kill that shall heretofore be known as the Craftmatic Adjustable Death – the name Freddy Krueger is uttered again. Problem is it’s spoken by Tim (James Callahan), a guest at the local Chez Gaga, who happens to be heavily medicated buddies with Will (Jason Ritter), the ex-junior high sweetheart of Lori (Monica Keena).

When Will sees a body bag being rolled out of Lori’s house on the local news, he busts out of the nut house with Tim to go warn his prepubescent flame of the Krueger legend, which has been thoroughly written out of the town’s history. In other words, Will is inadvertently playing right into Freddy’s steel-clawed hand. Pretty soon, Freddy’s revitalized and ready to make his big slasher comeback, but there’s a catch: Jason is still making homicidal hay on his turf. So before Freddy can get down to business, he’s got to eliminate the masked one, which, as we know, is a tall order that even the formidable likes of Corey Feldman couldn’t fill. Call up Michael Buffer and, “Let’s get ready to rumble!!!”

Probably the biggest controversy surrounding this project has been New Line’s decision to sack the Olivier of Jason Vorhees portrayers, Kane Hodder, in favor of another, less-flashily-monikered stunt man, Ken Kirzinger. The studio’s alleged rationale was that Kane lacked the emotive reserves crucial to making Jason the kind of maniacal mongoloid that could elicit the audiences’ sympathies. (Where’s David Warner when you need him?) So while Jason is definitely the underdog in this brawl (if only because he’s in the other guy’s arena for most of the film), with the script making more references to his tragic drowning as a child than we’ve seen since the early installments in the series (including an appearance from his mother, who, apparently, is *not* played by Betsy Palmer this time out, but Paula Shaw), the difference in Kirzinger’s performance from Hodder’s seems negligible. Take that as you will.

The biggest problem with FREDDY VS. JASON is in its puzzling decision to cram so much listless backstory into what should be a fairly simple genre package. Do we really care about Lori and her sinister father, who may have had Will committed to cover-up the murder of his wife? It’s not enough to have two insanely prolific mass murderers prowling the neighborhood; we have to add in a case of potential uxoricide? C’mon! This isn’t Agatha Christie; it’s FREDDY VS. JASON! Why clog up the works with superfluous plotting that serves only to delay the massacre? This thing should be nothing but jump-scares and buckets of blood, with plenty of laughs scattered throughout. It certainly seems as if that’s what they had in mind when they cast the film. After all, why bring on such solid comedic performers like Lochlyn Munro or Monica Keena (who, I think, really found her calling on UNDECLARED) if you’re going to have them play against their strengths? With this kind of uninspired writing, they might as well have cast a group of girls less likely to insist on a no-nudity clause.

But when you get right down to it, FREDDY VS. JASON does deliver on the basic genre requirements. Gratuitous gore? Check. Tits? Check. One or two inventive kills that draw rapturous, bloodthirsty applause from the audience? Check (there’s a nice homage to the mid-coital spearing from PART II). Do I wish they would’ve put a little more thought into the script? Yes, but that extra effort wouldn’t have paid off at the box office. There are more than enough trailer-friendly shots in this film with which the marketing folks at New Line will be able to whip the target audience into a drooling frenzy by the time August 15th rolls around. As for once they’re in the theater… sure, the imbecilic subplots will leave ‘em groaning derisively for the first two-thirds, but when the final showdown at Camp Crystal Lake arrives, all will be forgiven. It’s a goddamn bloody mess. (BTW, dig that STREET TRASH bit with the gas tank.)

So keep your expectations tempered, if you’re at all capable of that, and I think you’ll have a good time. For all my high falutin’ grievances, I must admit that I, more or less, got what I came for. Perhaps the highest compliment I can bestow on FREDDY VS. JASON is that, when Neill Cumpston sees it, he’s going to befoul the theater like it’s a circa-1980 Times Square grindhouse unspooling a Russ Meyer double feature. On the off-chance you might find yourself in the cinema that day, I suggest you wear a sturdy pair of hip waders and swab a hefty dollop of VapoRub under your nose. It’s gonna get ugly.

Faithfully submitted,

Mr. Beaks




Harry/Mori,

Here is a review of the May 7 test screening of Freddy vs. Jason. I didn't see a review online yet so I thought I'd toss in my two cents. The movie was unfinished and didn't really have an ending (at least one that I understood) so keep that in mind when you read this. I'm sure a lot of stuff will change before this comes out this summer. SPOILERS follow. Call me John Hellway, Quarterback of the Damned.

My thoughts:

After a decade, Freddy is finally back on the screen and I'm happy to say he's better than ever. I remember seeing the first Elm Street in Denver when I was in high school and was hooked on the series from then on. I was curious to see if Freddy could still work in 2003 as audiences have moved on to creepier stuff. Happily, Robert Englund returns to the form of the early Elm Street movies and, I think, gives his best performance yet. This isn't the plastic looking old man of the later sequels, this is Freddy the way we want to remember him. This Freddy Krueger is scary, vicious, funny and really really pissed.

Why is he pissed you ask? Basically the parents of Springwood have conspired to eliminate Freddy as a threat. They lock up all the children who know about him (in Westin Hills, the hospital from Elm St 3 no less) and dope them up on a drug that prevents dreams. Freddy is forced to search "the bowels of hell" and finds someone he can send to instill the fear back into the town: namely Jason from Friday the 13th.

Regarding Jason... To be honest, I don't really know a lot about this guy. I haven't seen a full F13 movie other than the one with Horseshack from Welcome Back Kotter (which one was that talkbackers?). In my opinion Freddy always had more personality and made Jason suffer by comparison. Having said that, this Jason was fucking awesome. He slices, dices, shreds, impales, collapses, crunches and flat-out destroys anything (or anyone) in his way. This Jason is a seriously big mother fucker and he makes Freddy look like a little pussy when they stand next to each other once the fight moves to the real world.

Anyway, Freddy sends Jason to Elm Street where he is supposed to kill some kids and spread the fear around town (because it's Springwood everyone assumes Freddy is the killer) so he can get the power to come back. Jason of course gets greedy and starts killing all over the place. Finally Freddy, by messing with Monica Keena and her friends, gets the power to kill again. At that point the shit is on!!

The last third of the movie is all action with Freddy and Jason attacking each other in the dream world and the real world. There are some cool exchanges, some great Freddy smack talk (he has a line on Kelly Rowland from Destiny's Child that is fucking hilarious) and lots and lots of the red stuff. I haven't seen House of 1000 Corpses yet but between that and this movie it is going to be a good year for gore fans.

So hear's what I liked:

Flat out, the big fight is the baddest bloodiest brawl I've seen on film. It has two parts (dream world and real world) and they literally tear each other to pieces.

Lots of blood and lots of tits. Two things we don't get enough of in movies anymore.

The look. My biggest surprise was that this actually looked like a "real" movie, not a cheap product like the later Elm Street movies (or ANY of the F13 movies IMO). There's actual production value here, so it seems like New Line wants this one to break out. The Freddy makeup is great (similar to pt 1 and 3) and Jason actually looks scary instead of goofy.

I loved the opening, which has cameos (in flashbacks) from Nancy, Alice, Kristin and a few more popular characters from the Elm Street series. Freddy basically tells his story and it was so cool to see those scenes on the big screen again. I'm a fan, so it was nice to see a little touch to connect this crossover to the old movies.

What I didn't like:

The ending made absolutely no sense and ended out of nowhere. Totally killed my buzz walking out. I'm assuming there was something missing. The test screening people made a point of telling us before the movie that the movie wasn't done yet so I hope this can be changed.

The main girl, Monica Keena, is a really shitty actress. She looks like she's about to cry in every scene (probably from the strain on her bra). She made Kelly Rowland look like Angela Bassett.

To sum it up:

Finger knives. Machetes. Tits. Geysers of blood. Pot smoking. Fight of the century. It was like going back to 1985 again (and I mean that in a good way).

If you're a fan of either character, this is probably a * * * * * movie. If not, I'd say it's a * * * flick, for the fight and action alone. If they can fix the end of the movie I think New Line has a chance to do pretty good against the shitty late August movies (SWAT is gonna suck suck suck).




Goooooo Jason!

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Old Post 05-11-2003 04:44 AM
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Roshigoth
The Cheesemeister

Registered: Aug 2000
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I didn't read all the reviews. But it's already been demanded of me by a friend that I accompany her to see this movie, as she's rather obsessive over horror movies in general.

Besides, even though I have no doubts it's not gonna be a good movie, I expect it will still be reasonably amusing.

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Old Post 05-11-2003 05:54 AM
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Vegas
Title Town

Registered: Feb 2001
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I will see this, oh fucking yes!

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Old Post 05-11-2003 02:38 PM
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WastedPotential
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Elm Street 1 & 3 were fantastic. I saw Final Nightmare(? - the 3D one) in the theatre. 1 & 3 were the best. Gory AND cerebral. 2 was an implausible lump of shit, as was Dream Warriors, although the Deja Vu sequence was okay.

Never have watched a Friday the 13th.

Still, i would like to see this movie. Can't be any less good than Spider was.

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Old Post 05-11-2003 06:41 PM
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Smug Git
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Superman would kick both their asses and then rape robocop for dessert.

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Old Post 05-11-2003 07:04 PM
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Musashi
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dream warriors was 3

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Old Post 05-11-2003 07:50 PM
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WastedPotential
sociotard

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What was the tagline for 4, then?

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Old Post 05-11-2003 07:53 PM
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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

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Dream MASTER.

Also not to be confused with Part 5, Dream Child.

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Old Post 05-11-2003 08:05 PM
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Musashi
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what was 2?

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Old Post 05-11-2003 11:56 PM
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Tefl
Maharishi of Meh

Registered: Aug 2000
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One of the Jason movies end with his hockey mask (I think) getting dragged into the ground by Freddy's knifed glove.

Personally, I think the two villans are totally out of each other's league. Jason was a physical Revenaunt. He was a zombie with only revenge in what little mind he had. Freddy was a much more powerful creature. Instead of being a physical entity, he was mostly cerebreal and acted not so much for revenge (although it was a motive) but out of a desire to hurt people both metally and physically. (Plus he sucked up souls like they were big piles of coke.)

If you ever get a chance, read the NOES book. It tells an alternate story about his origin that really details his life of crime before he died. None of this shit like they put into the movies.

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Old Post 05-12-2003 02:58 AM
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buddha's penis
mourning wood

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Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2: Freddy's Revenge (1985)
Nightmare On Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors (1987)
Nightmare On Elm Street 4: The Dream Master (1988)
Nightmare On Elm Street 5: The Dream Child (1989)
Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare (1991)
New Nightmare (1994)

there you go, fellows.

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Old Post 05-12-2003 03:05 AM
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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

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Thumbs up

That was pretty kewl.

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Old Post 08-16-2003 03:23 AM
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karen
aging hipster

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theres a nightmare on elm street book, tefl?

awesome.

where might one acquire this?

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Old Post 08-17-2003 01:54 AM
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karen
aging hipster

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: seattle-ish
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checked amazon and got a lot of results..
which one of these is the one youre talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...0331694-1318549

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Old Post 08-17-2003 01:57 AM
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karen
aging hipster

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meh. stupid amazon search page results wont link.

so um.. whats the title, then?

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Old Post 08-17-2003 01:58 AM
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Tefl
Maharishi of Meh

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Shreveport, LA
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The book in particular I mentioned was printed back when Dream Warriors was released. It had novelizations of the first three movies as well as this long ass section about his life before he died. I can't remember the name but I have it here somewhere. If I find it I'll let you know.

One of the most facinating parts was the story of Freddy as a child coming up. Seems his nun momma dumped him in an orphanage before killing herself. He was then adopted by a drug running pimp to be used as a runner. When Freddy got to be a teenager be began to screw his adopted dad's whores. His father would find out and beat him with a leather razor starp. Over time Freddy began to equate love and pleasure with pain. Eventually Freddy is on his own, (can't remember if he killed his dad or not.) Anyway, he's a street bum and while doped up on smack, a bunch of kids start fucking with him. He wakes up and smashes a bottle against one kid's head and it kills him. Being strung out he then takes his dad's straight razor and makes four cuts in the boys belly just to see it bleed. Later when he makes his glove, he uses four blades to represent the four cuts he put in the kids guts.

Thus the story of how the glove came about.

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Old Post 08-17-2003 06:25 AM
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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

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quote:
Originally posted by Tefl
One of the most facinating parts was the story of Freddy as a child coming up. Seems his nun momma dumped him in an orphanage before killing herself. He was then adopted by a drug running pimp to be used as a runner. When Freddy got to be a teenager be began to screw his adopted dad's whores. His father would find out and beat him with a leather razor starp. Over time Freddy began to equate love and pleasure with pain. Eventually Freddy is on his own, (can't remember if he killed his dad or not.) Anyway, he's a street bum and while doped up on smack, a bunch of kids start fucking with him. He wakes up and smashes a bottle against one kid's head and it kills him. Being strung out he then takes his dad's straight razor and makes four cuts in the boys belly just to see it bleed. Later when he makes his glove, he uses four blades to represent the four cuts he put in the kids guts.

Thus the story of how the glove came about.



That's just bizarre.

The fact that somebody would write what amounts to a novel worth of material, and use it as backstory for Nightmare on Elm Street.

Weird.

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Old Post 08-17-2003 07:27 AM
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karen
aging hipster

Registered: Jul 2000
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awesome, thanks tefl

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Old Post 08-17-2003 08:58 AM
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CRSR
°Hits Moi!°

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2990

Enjoyed the movie, even though I could have written a better flick. Was still cool and made me giggle and jump at parts.

It was sad to see how even though Freddy still freaks the shit out of me after all these years he had become a scapegoat for just oneliners in this movie. Some scenes he is truely evil while in others his lines turn him laughable.
England has annouced that he will no longer do Freddy movies. Which maybe why they left the character in the state he was in at the end. However if they do do another one of the Elm Street stories ( Which I think is impossilble now that they have developed the charter so much that we are no longer surprised by him) I hope the can get someone that is as chilling as England was during the years.

Rematch?
No...I think I'd perfer to see Wes Craven write movies like he did back in the day...Hill Have Eyes...etc. (though Wes didn't write this one) Anyways...
Thumbs up for cheers and gore, Thumbs down for dialogue and supporting cast.

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Old Post 08-20-2003 06:52 AM
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ItsJustLogan
le pour soi

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 4101

thumbs up for seeing Katharine Isabelle's (of Ginger Snaps(http://www.imdb.com/Title?0210070) fame ) tits

speaking of which, GS2 is in production now, as is GS: The Prequel. w00t.

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Old Post 08-21-2003 07:11 AM
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karen
aging hipster

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: seattle-ish
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saw it tonight, complete with audience participation("DONT GO IN THERE!") and cheering during the freddy/jason fight scenes.

great stuff.

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Old Post 08-22-2003 07:12 AM
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