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i got to see this on friday with rosh and the family. i liked it for the most part, but the shoddy use of CGI in some of the fight scenes was pretty disappointing. most noticable award is a tie- the playground fight scene near the end was totally blown by bad graphics, and the highway chase scene where the agent jumps on the car- he was completely digitalized and it looked awful.

i'm very impressed with the twists and turns of the plot though. the oracle a rogue program? the humans having to depend on the matrix itself to save them?

and did anyone else catch the innuendo from the architect at the end? he said that he's remade zion and overthrown it six times. but...zion is supposedly outside of the matrix, a free world. so...there's a matrix within the matrix?

puzzling, puzzling. i'm curious to see how they're going to explain THAT to morpheus.

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yeah sorta makes me think back to when he said neo would get to choose 23 people within the matrix to rebuild zion, well...if they are in the matrix, i dont see how they could, and what would be wrong with the people all ready who werent at zion when it was destroyed to rebuild zion

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awful special effects eh? you sound as if you could do better.

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i saw this thursday, then rewatched the first one yesterday.

a lot of the lines in the first one make more sense this time around with the added background the architect gave...

morpheus saying "there was a man born in the matrix who could change things as he saw fit - it was he who freed the first of us" the first of us meaning the original 23?

anyone catch the fact that the architect was hinted at in the first one? specifically, the interrigation scene

i don't buy the matrix in a matrix theory - there's been a lot of posting on a forum i was browsing last night. i guess it's not so much the thought behind it as much as it's a cheesy way out and i hope they don't take it. it would be way too 13th floor for me.

the big discussion i've seen was why the necessary existance of zion? yes, there is 1% of the human race that don't accept the matrix as reality, but what is the purpose of having a city where humans are free to roam and do what they want?

the theory i'm most inclined to go with currently is that the machines have no way of knowing where in the power plant an individual is, that they need the freed humans to remove them so as to minimize disruption. it would be much easier if they could just simply remove and liquify these people before they cause any problems.

this could be one explanation why they didn't just flush neo as soon as they knew he was morpheus' next target. the other being that he is necessary to reboot things - which may not be necessary if that 1% of the population is cleaned out.

another topic of debate i've run into was the choice of neo's 5 predecessors. was what the architect said true? where if he chose the door to try and save trinity, the matrix would crash? if so, why didn't it? it can be assumed that the other 5 chose to enter the core, select the humans to restart zion and move along. he kind of hints at it by telling him that his connection with humanity is different than in previous runs.

i'm curious to see what the neo/smith connection actually is...

is the oracle the person referenced as "the mother of the matrix"?

quote:

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yeah sorta makes me think back to when he said neo would get to choose 23 people within the matrix to rebuild zion, well...if they are in the matrix, i dont see how they could, and what would be wrong with the people all ready who werent at zion when it was destroyed to rebuild zion

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quote:

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Originally posted by bad-moj0
awful special effects eh? you sound as if you could do better.

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did you not see this thread morgana?

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i read on another board that its possible what he sensed wasn't the sentinels, but and EMP blast from the ship which saved them... sounds possible, but i still don't know.

personally, i can't explain how he stopped them - i just hope they don't take the cheesy way out.

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I think it's going to be pretty neat if there are two matriciciciiis. If this is the case, I am interested in what the "real world" looks like. It is starting to remind me of the 13th Floor more and more.

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quote:

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Originally posted by morgana
no, but half of hollywood can. i'm only holding them up to the standards of their predecessors.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bad-moj0
I'm just curious as to who these 'predecessors' are? You make pretty stupid assumptions eh, because I bet these said 'predecessors' you speak of worked on this movie too.

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morgana, did you ever stop and think. A human is by far one of hardest things to create digitally.

Dinosaurs aren't human, and we've never actually seen a real live dinosaur.

Gollum is a fantasy character/creature. He isn't created exactly like a human being, but has the same traits ie. he has the human form, but he still isn't human. BUT, I must agree Gollum was done magnificantly.

Terminator was ground breaking stuff. And if you look closely, when the T-1000 is in liquid form, his body movements are very tiny and very robotic. GASP, weren't they lucky he was a robot.

Star Wars' Jar Jar Binks was good too, but not human. Like Gollum their movements are done good. Star Wars has tons of special effects, just like the Matrix does too. Did you notice the Cadillac truck the Twins drove wasn't real a lot of the time? My car-fanatic friend did. What about when Trinity was driving head on into traffic? Of course that wasn't real. What else, THE WHOLE movie is special effects like Star Wars. So what I'm saying is, don't use Star Wars against me.

You got me on one thing, the 12 principles of animation. I guess the Matrix special effects team didn't go into depth over the agent's movements. I thought they were great. feh, maybe you're too picky.

The only arguement I have is that they decided to recreate a human being. Something we see every single day of our lives, so it's kind of hard to trick the viewers eye on something like that, don't ya think?

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i talked to G and he said that the merge function is kind of offline for awhile. sorry to split up the convo like this.

mojo: yeah, i totally get that, and i honestly don't think it's the animators' faults per se. i think that they expected the editing people to run the film a little faster, because during most of the scene you couldn't tell because bodies were flying everywhere. but the carjumping sequence was awful because it was slow motion. blue screen would have worked wonders.

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morgana just doesn't like it when people don't move the way that people are supposed to move - she didn't like the spiderman CG either. $100 says she'll hate the CG in the Hulk as well.

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Go try making a guy jump on a car and make it look that good and come back to me

Oh yeah, I think I remember reading about how there were a lot of animators and special effect guys from all over the place that worked at different places. Like Squaresoft guys and people that probably worked on the same movies you mentioned.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Musashi


the big discussion i've seen was why the necessary existance of zion? yes, there is 1% of the human race that don't accept the matrix as reality, but what is the purpose of having a city where humans are free to roam and do what they want?[QUOTE][B]

Im leaning towards the fact that Zion was a necessity to force "the Neo" to make the choicee of returning back into the source, whos to say the other 5 neos had a trinity to counteract that urge?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Musashi
[B]
the theory i'm most inclined to go with currently is that the machines have no way of knowing where in the power plant an individual is, that they need the freed humans to remove them so as to minimize disruption. it would be much easier if they could just simply remove and liquify these people before they cause any problems.

this could be one explanation why they didn't just flush neo as soon as they knew he was morpheus' next target. the other being that he is necessary to reboot things - which may not be necessary if that 1% of the population is cleaned out.

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my editing skillz suck

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slight: it's not the way they move. it's not their clothes, their haircuts, or anything like that.

IT LOOKS FAKE. when you can't tell where the CGI is in a movie, that's good effects. you shouldn't be able to look at a scene and in less than 3 seconds be able to say "oh. that's computer generated". they can do better, but for some reason, they haven't. most of the CGI in spiderman was ok, but there were two scenes that were awful, and that's what i commented on before. and yes, from what i've seen so far, i don't even want to see the hulk.

and mojo- just as i said at the hypertribe: just because i'm not a chef doesn't mean i can't critique the food when it tastes bad.

just because i myself can't perform a function doesn't mean that when someone else does it i can't point out where they've done it badly. and movies are increasingly released with horrible CGI because people write it off and say "oh well, i couldn't have done better so it's ok". for me it's not. i've seen it done better many other times.

so when i'm really into a movie, sucked right done into the plot and enjoying it, bad CGI wakes me up and shatters the spell. it's like watching a fantastic movie only to have the plot completelly unravel at a crucial point. you're left sitting there going "what just happened?".

hey, if you enjoyed it and can forgive blatant special effects mistakes, more power to you. i liked the movie and i'm enjoying the plot of the trilogy so far, but i am also disappointed with the hurried effects. end of story.

another plot twist i didn't think of earlier: what if neo himself is a program like the oracle?

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I guess I can just suspend my disbeleif a little easier morgana.

There was only one point in the film that I got a flash of 'eww, bad CG' which spoiled an otherwise good scene - during the polefight with all the Smiths, or maybe right after when he's doing the superman thing, there was a shot of Keanu Reeves' face in a relatively slo-mo/closeup combo, and for all of maybe 1.2 seconds, his expression wasn't bland. That was like a DEAD GIVEAWAY that the whole scene was faked.

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quote:

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Originally posted by morgana
another plot twist i didn't think of earlier: what if neo himself is a program like the oracle?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cynical Apparition
OH but they did know where neo's pod was when he started to reject the matrix, and they did flush him down into that sewer place, whos to say that isnt where they are liquified at?

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After seeing it the third time......

Did you notice a lot of the slow-mo shots are fake? The whole movie is fake. The 'Burly Brawl' scene which has real actors in it has a bunch of different actors with Agent Smith's (Hugo Weaving) face 'copied and pasted'(to make it sound simple) on the heads.

I think it's fucking cool. I think I'm just trying to make you love the movie. I am ze insane.

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actually, i'm not even sure it's all actors with his face on it. i read in entertainment weekly that the revolutionary tech they did for this movie was a way in which to render all of them digitally while keeping the photorealistic appearance...

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Thought that it was pretty bad. Or good. Not sure yet. While I was watching the film I thought it was a pile of shit. Zion, or the Mtv spring-break-block-party-christina-aquilera-video sequence was pathetic and lacking. There were some aesthetic issues I had with the movie where it was evident that they hadn't planned out each scene as it related to the whole, which made the flick feel like it was going from idea to idea rather than telling a story.

And aside from s