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Smug Git
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'Hating Bush and Loving it'

quote:

Hating George Bush, and loving it

By Wesley Pruden

Hating is fun, but too much of it, like too much garlic, can ruin a romance.
Hating can ruin a politician's romance with voters, too. You could ask some of the Republicans who thought they could dispatch Bill Clinton to oblivion if only they hated him hard enough.
Now it's the Democrats who must heed this caution. Hating George W. Bush has become the squalid pastime of some of our Beautiful People. Some of them are gathering tonight at the Beverly Hilton in Hollywood at the invitation of Laurie David, wife of the man who created the television show "Seinfeld," for something called "Hate Bush 12/2 Event."
"This is the most important meeting you can attend to prevent the advancement of the current extremist right-wing agenda," Mzz David wrote. "Do not miss this meeting. This will be a high-level briefing to discuss the strategies ... to affect what happens next November."
The Drudge Report, which obtained a copy of the invitation, lists the names of a dozen of the glitteries invited to come together to share the hate. Harold Ickes, who was Bill Clinton's deputy chief of staff and director of the 1996 Clinton-Gore re-election campaign, and Ellen Malcolm, founder of Emily's List, the feminist political-action committee, will preside. A rousing good time is expected to be had by all.
But you don't have to go to Hollywood to join the orgy. Internet sites are abuzz with hate. One of them keeps a "body count" of all the folk George W. and his family have put on ice over the years. Too bad that Owney Madden and Lucky Luciano, Frank Costello and Joey Gallo are still dead. They could take notes. Only last week the airwaves were awash with the hot scoop that it was Lyndon Johnson who presided over the Kennedy assassination, but one particular Internet site tells us no, the evildoing knave of Dallas was really George H.W. Bush, who also did in Hale Boggs, the Louisiana congressman who was a skeptical member of the Warren Commission. Mr. Boggs died when his plane crashed in the Alaskan wilderness and was never found. Now it turns out that the elder Mr. Bush arranged the plane crash. (Maybe Barbara loosened the spark plugs.) Nobody can arrange a plane crash with the speed and efficiency of this dynamic duo. The elder Bush is blamed for the crash that took the life of the wife of Howard Hunt, one of the Watergate burglars, because she had "information." George W. arranged the crash that killed Gov. Mel Carnahan of Missouri in the last days of his 2000 challenge of John Ashcroft. It's not clear how this helped George W., since the ghost of the governor won and his wife took Mr. Ashcroft's seat in the U.S. Senate. George W. gets around. He is said to have started the great anthrax scare when he sprinkled germs onto the desk of the photographic editor of the National Enquirer because he didn't like a photograph of his daughter published in the Enquirer. Elvis is a prisoner in the Bush basement in Kennebunkport.
Internet conspiracy theories are always convoluted if not necessarily imaginative, and usually make sense only to the spinners. But some of the hate-Bush movement thrives in more or less respectable quarters. The New Republic published a cover story by someone identified as "Jonathan Chait" (perhaps a nom-de-plume for someone who didn't want his real name associated with the piece), who wrote that he hates not only what George W. does, but the way he walks and talks and even hates what everybody else likes about the personable president.
Much of the mainstream coverage of the president's dash to Baghdad to have dinner with his troops reflects similar elementary-school hatred. Dana Milbank, who dabbles in Bush hatred for The Washington Post, sneered that "while the troops cheered the moment, it is too soon to know whether the image of Bush in his Army jacket ... will become a symbol of strong leadership or a symbol of unwarranted bravado." He resurrected Sidney Blumenthal, who was a White House lady-in-waiting to Hillary Clinton, to suggest that even the "image" of the president landing at night, without running lights and the cabin windows shuttered, was a mark of something approaching cowardice.
The hatred will darken and fester as the situation in Iraq improves, as it will, and as the economy pops and crackles to life, as it has begun to do. Only yesterday the Democrats thought such gods as they believe in were smiling on them, with Americans dying in Iraq and out of work at home. Now their laughter is dying in tears, while the rest of us cheer.

Wesley Pruden is editor in chief of The Times.



Link

I think that the article is substantially correct; the Democrats aren't doing themselves any favours by going overboard (Wellstone's memorial was a case in point; who'd have ever imagined that we would ever feel sympathy for Trent Lott?). The stuff that the article picks on the most isn't terribly mainstream (although the 'Hate Bush' event does appear to have some mainstream democrats at it, as Drudge reported and this editorial mentions, even though the Hollywood people who are attending (from the list that I saw on Drudge) are not very big names on the whole).

It looked stupid when the republicans went overboard on Clinton (although I think that he should have been kicked from office, myself) and just shouting loudly about how bad someone is won't convince people on its own. There are numerous reasons to attack Bush, not least for betraying conservative values (and, the libertarians amongst us might contend, American values). I think that he'll be OK come election time anyway, because the economy was always going to improve in light of the tax cutting (my problem was always with the future problems that it could create, not that it would work in the short term) and power will have been handed over in Iraq (so even if the terrorists/resistance are still blowing up civilians, that will be (wrongly, I think) seen by many voters as an Iraqi concern rather than one for which the US should bear the weight). If the democrats want to make a fist of it, in the apparent absence of any republican with the inclination and the balls to point out that Bush is not doing what a republican president ought to be doing and do him some damage in the process, then they have to campaign on the issues rather than participate in the circle-jerk of Bush hating that appears to have some prevalence at the moment (not that all of them are doing it, but it appears to be pretty high-profile nevertheless). In an ideal world (for me) McCain will run as an independent and win.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 12:51 PM
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CHiPsJr
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Agreed. It is particularly foolish of the democrats to describe Bush and his followers as having an "extremist right wing" agenda. Bush, like Bill Clinton before him, is quite a bit closer to the American political center than are the majority of those who hate him.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 02:35 PM
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Smug Git
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In fact, that would be part of my problem with Bush. Trying to be nice and electable from the centre while still delivering to the right what he promised means stuff like tax cuts, but with spending increases and a huge deficit. I don't know why the republicans are happy with him (assuming that they are, which they seem to be), unless it is just because Bush is 'one of us' (at least, by his own claims).

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Old Post 12-03-2003 02:38 PM
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CHiPsJr
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
In fact, that would be part of my problem with Bush. Trying to be nice and electable from the centre while still delivering to the right what he promised means stuff like tax cuts, but with spending increases and a huge deficit. I don't know why the republicans are happy with him (assuming that they are, which they seem to be), unless it is just because Bush is 'one of us' (at least, by his own claims).


It's hard to generalize about Republican opinion with the conservatives increasingly fragmented ideologically. National Review, which speaks to as broad a cross-section of Republican opinion as any single publication, seems to like Bush primarily as the best of available alternatives. They're not HAPPY about the high social spending, the support for campaign finance and prescription drug coverage, or the steel tariffs, and when he does those things they criticize him for it. They're with him on the issues that matter most to them, though--tax cuts, foreign policy, the judiciary, abortion--so they see him as an imperfect champion, but a champion nonetheless.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 03:53 PM
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lucidnightmare
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i distrust the opponets of bush more than him

left wing extreamist like Al Frakken ,Michel Moore and all of those hollywood idiots who know nothing of what real life is about or world anything else really


i distrust radical feminist evironmentalist and leftist of the democratic party and the religious fundametalist of the right equaly , they like to think of themselves as opposites when they are really cousins

a republican is good when there is a war to keep them busy ..i dont want someone in the whitehouse right now worried about the civil rights or terrorist that is what it all boils down to with me

Last edited by lucidnightmare on 12-03-2003 at 05:06 PM

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Old Post 12-03-2003 04:59 PM
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mmmtravis
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The title would've been much more humorous had Mug started the thread.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 05:43 PM
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Weasel Spoor
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quote:
Originally posted by lucidnightmare
left wing extreamist like Al Frakken ,Michel Moore and all of those hollywood idiots who know nothing of what real life is about or world anything else really



Michael Moore, I understand, is a working class man from Flint in Michigan, who didn't even go to college.

I rather suspect he knows more about real life than GWB who has had everything handed to him on a plate since George senior spat his load into Babs on that fateful night.

I think the US right spit bile at Michael Moore so much because they cannot compete with his common touch with the average Joe, or indeed his book sales.

I think he is more reasonable than his equivalents on the right - Mr Moore has not (as far as I am aware) come up with anything that can compete with:

"Oh you're one of the Sodomites, you should only get AIDs and die, you pig. Hows that Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better to do than put me down you piece of garbage? You have got nothing to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it"

(Michael Savage on MSNBC, July 2003)

"God says 'the earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's Yours"

(Anne Coulter, Fox News, June 2001)

"It is true that if you are poor and can't afford a good lawyer, your odds of going to prison skyrocket. But you know what? Tough!"

(Bill O Reilly Fox News April 2003)

Kindly pull up a Moore quote that sounds more kooky and out of touch with reality than these fuck nuts on the American right.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 05:44 PM
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mmmtravis
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quote:
Originally posted by Weasel Spoor
"God says 'the earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's Yours"

(Anne Coulter, Fox News, June 2001)

I'd consider raping her if she didn't own so many guns. And she'd like it, too.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 05:50 PM
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buddha's penis
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yeah, pointing all that animosity at bush himself takes a lot of time away from criticising his policies. which isn't done so much, publically, especially compared to personal-type criticisms. which is stupid.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 06:02 PM
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lucidnightmare
Max Power

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quote:
Originally posted by Weasel Spoor
Michael Moore, I understand, is a working class man from Flint in Michigan, who didn't even go to college.

I rather suspect he knows more about real life than GWB who has had everything handed to him on a plate since George senior spat his load into Babs on that fateful night.

I think the US right spit bile at Michael Moore so much because they cannot compete with his common touch with the average Joe, or indeed his book sales.

I think he is more reasonable than his equivalents on the right - Mr Moore has not (as far as I am aware) come up with anything that can compete with:

"Oh you're one of the Sodomites, you should only get AIDs and die, you pig. Hows that Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better to do than put me down you piece of garbage? You have got nothing to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it"

(Michael Savage on MSNBC, July 2003)

"God says 'the earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's Yours"

(Anne Coulter, Fox News, June 2001)

"It is true that if you are poor and can't afford a good lawyer, your odds of going to prison skyrocket. But you know what? Tough!"

(Bill O Reilly Fox News April 2003)

Kindly pull up a Moore quote that sounds more kooky and out of touch with reality than these fuck nuts on the American right.



find someone else to defend right wingers im not

and oh god you fell for that common man crap .. pr people create that image moore while on his book tour this year .. was being flown around the country on a corperate jet ..how common man of him

and actually Bill O Reilly and many others are more popular than moore who is on the fringe in this country

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Old Post 12-03-2003 06:40 PM
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CHiPsJr
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quote:
Originally posted by Weasel Spoor
Michael Moore, I understand, is a working class man from Flint in Michigan, who didn't even go to college.


Moore is a millionaire many times over who lives in a penthouse on the upper west side of Manhattan.

quote:
Originally posted by Weasel Spoor
I think the US right spit bile at Michael Moore so much because they cannot compete with his common touch with the average Joe, or indeed his book sales.


Moore's sales are similar to Coulter's and Limbaughs. They are all birds of a feather.

quote:
Originally posted by Weasel Spoor
Kindly pull up a Moore quote that sounds more kooky and out of touch with reality than these fuck nuts on the American right.


I have no intention of defending Coulter or Savage. O'Reilly's comment is unpleasant but reasonably defensible if you'd care to get into it. As for Moore:

“There is no terrorist threat.” (-Dude, Where’s My Country? p. 95)

"Moore ... shocked the crowd at North London's Roundhouse Theater a couple of weeks ago by ranting that passengers on plans hijacked on Sept. 11 were 'scaredy-cats because they were mostly white.'" (NY Post, Jan. 8, 2003)

"Don't give Bush his majority on November 5th. He's already seen to it that his cronies in big business have wiped out your 401 (K), and they are doing their best to see that you are left with no pension at all."

"Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!" (Moore’s mailing list, 9/12/01)

"Americans are not immune from this deadly disease. Some experts estimate that some 200,000 US citizens diagnosed with Alzheimer's may in fact be carrying the alien protein and that their dementia is actually a form of mad cow."(-Stupid White Men, p. 137)

"Part of the reason you're hearing so much about how bad the economy is these days is that many of those getting the pink slips are friends and family of those reporting the bad news. . . . There is no downturn." (Stupid White Men, p. 55).

"He has a huge army, and is even suspected of having an atomic bomb. In the past two years, though, Kim Jong II has showed signs of a change of heart, signs that he's emerging from the shadows." (Stupid White Men, p. 192).

"Now this year [1997], Colin Powell in all the public opinion polls would beat everybody. Is that amazing? Do you realize that we still have a problem with race in the country? A huge problem. A huge divisive problem regarding race. And yet Americans are so upset at what is going on in this country right now they're willing to set aside their own personal racism and vote for someone they would not want living next door to them or marrying their daughter."

Enough?

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Old Post 12-03-2003 08:04 PM
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lady sianna
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this is an interesting site of one man's personal efforts to show that Ann Coulter is full of shit.

maybe travis' cock in her mouth would shut the bitch up.



the left should definitely be less emotional about Bush. the effectiveness would be in publicizing exactly how devastating his presidency has been to 'the common man'.

and although Michael Moore may be rolling in it now, he certainly did not start out that way. i believe that was Weasel's point.

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Old Post 12-03-2003 10:06 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Moore is a millionaire many times over who lives in a penthouse on the upper west side of Manhattan.



However, Weasel's comments were about his origins, were they not?

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Old Post 12-04-2003 12:43 AM
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Smug Git
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And the Moore stuff that you quoted wasn't, in my opinion, as extreme as the stuff that Weasel posted, although I don't agree with either lot.

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Old Post 12-04-2003 12:47 AM
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mmmtravis
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Mug, who would you rather fuck, Moore or Limbaugh?

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Old Post 12-04-2003 01:29 AM
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CHiPsJr
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
However, Weasel's comments were about his origins, were they not?


Weasel's comment was that Moore IS a working class man from Flint, which has not been the case for some time.

Perhaps he MEANT to say that Moore WAS a working class man at one point. Which is true. And it's also true of Bill Gates, Andrew Carnegie, and Ted Turner. Moore is exactly as representative of the "average Joe" as those three are. He hasn't had an average man's friends or an average man's worries for twenty years. His only interaction with the common man is to ask them embarrassing questions while pointing a camera at them and to cite statistics about how stupid they are. His "common touch with the average Joe", and his book sales figures, are pretty much the mirror image of those of Rush Limbaugh--who grew up a lower-middle class kid from Cape Girardeu, Missouri, never graduated from college, and who spent the better part of a decade doing low-level PR work for the Kansas City Royals. Socially and economically speaking, Moore is Rush Limbaugh with two days of beard growth and a baseball cap.

As for Moore's comments. If the standard is "out of touch with reality," I think Moore's theories about the economy, terrorism, and mad cow disease beat O'Reilly's assessment of our judicial system hollow. If the standard is "kooky", I'll go with the terrorism, white people as cowards, and racists deliberately seeking out black candidates to vote for, as weirder than O'Reilly saying that poor people aren't entitled to the same quality of legal counsel as the rich. One might possibly opt for the listed conservatives instead, I suppose. It's a judgment call. My stance is they're all pretty far out there.

Moore, like Savage and Coulter, is a self-promoting, consistently inaccurate, media-created gasbag. The only thing that differentiates him from people like Limbaugh is the particular color of his politics.

Last edited by CHiPsJr on 12-04-2003 at 02:05 AM

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Old Post 12-04-2003 01:56 AM
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Smug Git
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Well, he will always be from Flint and in the British class system, or certainly as it was (it is not so strong now), you are the class that you are born into, so his sentence is, to my understanding, a statement about his origins. Just because he is rich doesn't change any of that.

And I still think that the other quotes are way weirder than Moore's comments. Not that you wouldn't be able to find weirder comments from Moore, I don't know, but I don't think that you have with that selection.

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Old Post 12-04-2003 09:27 AM
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lucidnightmare
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quote:
There is no terrorist threat.” (-Dude, Where’s My Country? p. 95)

"Moore ... shocked the crowd at North London's Roundhouse Theater a couple of weeks ago by ranting that passengers on plans hijacked on Sept. 11 were 'scaredy-cats because they were mostly white.'" (NY Post, Jan. 8, 2003)


you dont consider those comments extream? its typical leftist ..terrorist attack your country blame the victim, its somehow our faullt or bushes fault ..how stupid


his ideas are without merit hes a complete fool ..

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Old Post 12-04-2003 11:54 AM
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lucidnightmare
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quote:
"Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!" (Moore’s mailing list, 9/12/01)
i cant stand this guy..i cant believe he actually thinks this nonsense is true

the terrorist attacked bush ..? lol

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Old Post 12-04-2003 12:05 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by lucidnightmare
you dont consider those comments extreme?


I didn't say that, did I? The second comment is clearly nuts, although I the NYPost is a comic, so I'd rather see what a proper newspaper made of it. The first statement could make sense if it is a statement that the terrorist threat is not necessarily as big as it is made out to be, but I haven't read the book; I do recall that in one book he had a picture of the Oklahoma bombing and a picture of a deserted factory and had some caption under the latter like 'the real terrorism' which is a good way to make that point (in that it was shocking, and raised predictable and tedious outcry), although it isn't one that I agree with (if free trade shuts American, or British factories, then that should be as natural as water running downhill, as far as I am concerned). However, I haven't read the book from which it was quoted.

I should add that I don't know the context of any of these statements; I haven't read Moore's books, reading Coulter is too painful to do much of it, and I am in the UK so don't get O'Reilly and probably wouldn't watch him if I did. If you have read Moore's book then you'd be able to shed more light on the first statement that you posted than I could as you will know the context.

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