Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

Should blackmail be illegal?

That drunk driving thread below gave me an idea. :-)

The Constitution of the United States guarantees individual citizens the right to speak freely. There are various restrictions on this right; however, there are virtually NO restrictions on the right to speak so long as what you are saying is true.

It doesn't matter if what you say is mean or malicious. If it's true, it's constitutionally protected.

Here's the odd thing, though. It's legal to speak true information about other people. It's legal to choose NOT to speak truly about other people. What is NOT legal is charging people for the service of not conveying true information about them. It's called "blackmail".

What's the rationale behind this prohibition? Is it because blackmail is "mean"? It seems to me that not conveying the information is nicer than conveying it. It must seem that way to the "victims," too, because otherwise they wouldn't part with the money.

Can someone give me a specific, persuasive reason why blackmail should be illegal if the information is true?

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 12164

quote:

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Originally posted by CHiPsJr:
Can someone give me a specific, persuasive reason why blackmail should be illegal if the information is true?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: my mother's bloody womb
Posts: 7148

in all cases of blackmail, the person has obviously done something "wrong" that they don't want anyone to know about. most of the time that something "wrong" is illegal. therefore, if you are blackmailing someone, you're probably withholding information on a crime from the authorities, and effectively hiding evidence that a criminal act has taken place.
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"I knew it was going to be in the last place I looked, so I looked there first." ---Delirium

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 12164

quote:

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Originally posted by morgana:

in all cases of blackmail, the person has obviously done something "wrong" that they don't want anyone to know about

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Bangor, ME
Posts: 10173

what you know of that?

shit

*goes to burn the papers*

hehe, j/k
very illegal blackmail is

damn sorry i just sounded like yoda

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 12164

This is from the Bill Cosby/Autumn Jackson trial. Note the following sentence at the end: "Further, under the act, even if what you say about the person's reputation is true and you may be entitled to compensation, it is still a crime because of the 'threat'." So, as you can see, the courts will not allow you to extort money from a person, even if you are telling the truth. (To clarify the last part: libel and slander are different. In those 2 instances, you are not extorting money.)

"Autumn Jackson, a twenty-two year old woman claimed her father was Bill Cosby, the multi-talented actor, comedian, lecturer and author. She had demanded forty million dollars from him (later reduced to twenty-four million) for her not disclosing that she was his child. She was indicted under the federal Hobbs Act. This law was intended by congress to prevent individuals and organizations from demanding money, or jobs by threatening acts of violence or economic injury. It was directed mainly at labor unions to prevent economic blackmail. In the Jackson case, it was construed to include the crime of threatening to injure a reputation unless money, or something of value, was conveyed. Further, under the act, even if what you say about the person's reputation is true and you may be entitled to compensation, it is still a crime because of the 'threat'. In the civil wrongs of libel and slander, truth is a defense; not so in the Hobbs Act, which carries a sentence up to 12 years in prison and $750,000.00 fine."

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: my mother's bloody womb
Posts: 7148

GFY, how is my statement untrue? i did not say that extortion is not illegal. in fact, that was already explained in your first post. i was simply expanding on that point into another outlook of why it's illegal. look at what you quoted again. notice that i put the word wrong in quotations. most people would think that cheating on your wife qualifies as "wrong". i did not say that all "wrong" things were illegal, i said most. so go fuck yourself, ok?
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"I knew it was going to be in the last place I looked, so I looked there first." ---Delirium

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 12164

quote:

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Originally posted by morgana:

in all cases of blackmail, the person has obviously done something "wrong" that they don't want anyone to know about.
[/URL]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 6086

You two are disputing "wrong" (moral) and "illegal". Many laws cover both. Extortion is one of those laws.

[This message has been edited by Dead_Inside (edited 10-31-2000).]

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 12164

quote:

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Originally posted by Dead_Inside:
You two are disputing "wrong" (moral) and "illegal". Many laws cover both. Extortion is one of those laws.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beyond Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 16327

quote:

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Originally posted by morgana:

in all cases of blackmail, the person has obviously done something "wrong" that they don't want anyone to know about. most of the time that something "wrong" is illegal. therefore, if you are blackmailing someone, you're probably withholding information on a crime from the authorities, and effectively hiding evidence that a criminal act has taken place.
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"I knew it was going to be in the last place I looked, so I looked there first." ---Delirium

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7236

Upon request I throw my hat into the ring. Why is blackmail illegal? I guess it will probably have something to do with two things. Firstly as GoFuckYourselves said, it is essnetially defined in another way as extortion, which is considered to be illegal. The second is probably derived from some kind of use of Bethamite theory when deciding law.

Basically the problem exists in blackmail because of the gain equation in the process. That being that the blackmailer stands to gain from keeping something from others, and he/she does this in a machiavellian way for his personal ends.

For the victim it is a zero sum game because in both cases he will lose. If he refuses then information that is damaging to him is revealed and he loses. If he pays up then his wallet loses (argubly unjustly on the extortion grounds), and he then continues to lose because of the blackmailer's illigitimate power over him.

Given these circumstances, and the fact that the law is usually formulated along benthamite lines then the obvious reason for it being illegal to me would be because of these game sums, and the utility of the law.

Of course I could be completely worng...who knows. If this didn't make sense to people I am sorry, I know what I mean though I promise.

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sp00ky
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'It seems to be that post-1945 Britain has been socially and culturally in an upwards spiral. The US has been in a decline in those areas, continuing to waste its wealth on weaponary and the show of nuclear empire' - Gore Vidal

I quote, therefore I am - Spooky

[This message has been edited by Spooky (edited 11-01-2000).]

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