Registered: Aug 2000
Location:
Posts: 7973

For some time I have noticed a dependance, demonstrated by certain people on the board, on certain oppositional labels. They aquire their dependance from the sources of their opinions, internal dialog centered around their world views, blah, blah, blah and frame their discussions based on the labels they have inherited.
And there is no denying that labels are attractive. Labels are handy because they allow for conceptual shorthand. Instead of saying 'the people who disagree with me on this point and that point and this other point for these reasons' you can say 'them' and the people who agree with you know who you are talking about. It also saves one from uncomfortable situations because you can shorten 'the people who agree with me on such and such from these reasons' 'Hey, wait buddy! Those are totally the wrong reasons! WTF?!' can be shortened to simple non-challenging 'us'. Us versus them. Light versus dark. Good guys versus bad guys. Left versus right. Christian versus heretic. Cyan versus azure.
At some point the labels become a replacement for actually thinking. At which point you enter into knee jerk politics in which you oppose ideas based on their color versus their content.
Take for instance gun control. There is a movement on the right that believes in the right to bear arms and that any government oversight on this basic freedom is:
a) trying to limit the power of the individual to protect himself from society.
b) trying to increase the ability of government to act unaccountably towards its civilians.
c) mean.
Therefore any attempt to limit gun proliferation amongst the population is viewed with suspicion as a bully boy tactic of a Stalinist government. Okay then.
However these are the same people that support giving this corrupt and evil bully boy government the power to kill people. The death penalty. The ultimate deterent in the hands of a corrupt establishment. Why? We know that evidence can be fabricated by corrupt people. We know from our experiences with racial tension that the death penalty can be abused. Why would we give the corrupt government a legitamate means to execute us? It's because we don't think about these issues anymore. We knee jerk.
Gun control advocates. You may believe in the idea that public safety takes presidence over public freedom. Therefore we should ban alcohol. We should work towards creating a drugs intolerant society instead of trying to legalizeing them. Why not? Let's assess the dangers of certain literature while at it. Public safety must prevail over individual concerns, no?
This my friends is discussion. A disscussion of ideas and concepts to try and gain a stronger foothold on reality. This "Leftist whiners suck the porky tit of government while Osama bin Laden fucks them up the ass ha ha." is not a discussion. It's conceptual shorthand. It is the dialog of idiots and I have no time for idiots. If you do, power to you. Maybe the admins can construct a pigpen forum for you to sling mud in.
But I suggest that people avoid the terms left and right for at least a while and try haveing a discussion because it will force you to actually think about opposeing viewpoints instead of just dissmissing them with a label. And that, my friends, is the key to independant thought.

We now return you to our regular broadcasting. This message was brought to you by Crealm Toothpaste.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: is futile
Posts: 5029

Indeed...

I think the typological method is a way for humans to simplify and order the perception of the world.
But as you point out... this can easily be overdone... the result being name-calling rather than dialogue.
We all do it, to varying degrees... but at some point it does cease to be constructive.

You are, of course, just a lefty whining freedom hater... so stfu, mmkay!

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 11475

You are right, Thimbles. These ideas should be common sense.

OK, maybe you are whining just a bit - you still got long to go before independent thought is achieved. And if you want a stronger fooothold on reality, leave this forum and any political ideas now. We cannot through idle and random thoughts hope to attain any idea more 'real' than others. The only thing you can hope for, is to get a stronger definition of your own identity.

And it seems you DO have time for idiots. But I guess that's necessary if you want to get closer to 'reality', which consists of idiots.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Cwesting
Posts: 9053

All I know is that people who froth at the mouth, whether in defense of conservative or liberal issues are tremendously boring and short sighted usually.

Zealotry and passion shouldn't be equated.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25010

I would have responded to this blatantly Liberal attempt at didacticism sooner, but I had to wipe the foam from my mouth for fear you Leftist pinheads might fail to take my comment seriously.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 11475

Careful, sweet Troll Who Dismisses With Labels. You don't want to lose the key to independent thought, now. Please regain your foothold on reality. Your knees are jerking.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: The Bottom of the Toyem Pole
Posts: 9462

People who depend on labels often are incapable of formulating coherent attacks against their targets, perhaps because they don't really understand what the target actually stands for. The left is bad from the perspective of the right and the right is bad from the perspective of the left by their nature. We end up with carts in front of horses and people unwilling to listen to what others have to say because the labels get in the way.

There are people on this board who consistently misunderstand what I say because they come in thinking about my "leftist" perspective which incapacitates their ability to actually understand me. My statements become labeled as lefty statements because I said them (the label leading the assessment) rather than I get labeled as a lefty for espousing leftist propaganda.

My biggest complaint about Thimbles' post is that left and right are more adjectival than prepositional, aren't they?

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25010

quote:

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Originally posted by Coincidence
Careful, sweet Troll Who Dismisses With Labels. You don't want to lose the key to independent thought, now. Please regain your foothold on reality. Your knees are jerking.

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