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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

The EU just got really big

quote:

Huge street parties, sparkling firework displays and joyful concerts have heralded the biggest expansion in the history of the European Union.

The 15 old members welcomed in Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and Malta at midnight.

The expansion to 25 members makes the EU the world's biggest trading bloc with a population of 455 million.

BBC News




Expansion is good.

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Old Post 05-01-2004 08:55 AM
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urbanjunkie
23

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
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when does the Turkish Republic Of Northern Cyprus join up?

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Old Post 05-01-2004 12:24 PM
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Coincidence
Aka 'others'

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 11291

Re: The EU just got really big

quote:
Originally posted by philjit
Expansion is good.


Yup, if bureaucracy can be contained. Will this make it better or worse in the eyes of the cynical brits? I hear Blair might let you vote for it.

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Old Post 05-01-2004 12:37 PM
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Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35656

quote:
Originally posted by urbanjunkie
when does the Turkish Republic Of Northern Cyprus join up?


When the foolish Greek Cypriots get fed up with the EU treating them like excrement because they voted against the EU Cyprus reunification plan.

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Old Post 05-01-2004 12:43 PM
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mudded
Too drunk to fish

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: is futile
Posts: 5027

I like the overall idea of expansion, even though I feel that the nation states are still overemphasized in the whole thing.

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Old Post 05-01-2004 01:51 PM
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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

Wake me when Turkey joins.

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Old Post 05-02-2004 01:24 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

sweet dreams

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Old Post 05-02-2004 07:00 AM
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Jack the Bagman
Nazi Porn Cock

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Harm's Way
Posts: 557

All the more reason to nip it in the bud.

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Old Post 05-02-2004 07:28 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24745

When I think of the EU, all I can picture is a chain-gang of autistic chefs all trying to catch separate cabs at a busy airport.

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Old Post 05-02-2004 07:36 PM
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Risus
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: Apr 2002
Location:
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Maybe yankees can take a lesson from the EU and try to work together with everyone instead of just antagonizing them.........

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Old Post 05-02-2004 08:24 PM
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mudded
Too drunk to fish

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: is futile
Posts: 5027

It's not like the EU don't have plenty of internal squabbles....

it is all the fault of the nation state system

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A preoccupied vegan named Hugh
picked up the wrong sandwich to chew.
He took a big bite
before spitting, in fright,
"OMG, WTF, BBQ!"

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Old Post 05-02-2004 08:31 PM
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Jack the Bagman
Nazi Porn Cock

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Harm's Way
Posts: 557

quote:
Originally posted by Risus
Maybe yankees can take a lesson from the EU and try to work together with everyone instead of just antagonizing them.........


Or maybe we can just strap them over an oil barrel and sodomize them.

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Old Post 05-02-2004 08:33 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24745

quote:
Originally posted by Risus
Maybe yankees can take a lesson from the EU and try to work together with everyone instead of just antagonizing them.........


And where the hell is in the fun in that?

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Old Post 05-02-2004 09:19 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24745

quote:
Originally posted by mudded
It's not like the EU don't have plenty of internal squabbles....

it is all the fault of the nation state system



Oh come on, mudded, just blame France. It's the most natural thing in the world to do.

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Old Post 05-02-2004 09:20 PM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

only for an englishman

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Old Post 05-03-2004 06:54 AM
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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

So how many official languages are there now?

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Old Post 05-04-2004 09:41 PM
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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

Oh, 20.

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Old Post 05-04-2004 09:43 PM
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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

The Official EU languages

The 20 official languages of the EU and their abbreviations are as follows:



Español ES Spanish
Dansk DA Danish
Deutsch DE German
Elinika EL Greek
English EN
Français FR French
Italiano IT Italian
Nederlands NL Dutch
Português PT Portuguese
Suomi FI Finnish
Svenska SV Swedish
Ceština CS Czech
Eesti ET Estonian
Latviski LV Latvian
Lietuviškai LT Lithuanian
Magyar HU Hungarian
Malti MT Maltese
Polski PL Polish
Slovencina SK Slovak
Slovenšcina SL Slovene

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Old Post 05-04-2004 09:45 PM
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Aydin
Rice King

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: China
Posts: 11795

Having Maltese as an official language would be like the U.S. printing the Congressional Record in Cherokee and Samoan.

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Old Post 05-04-2004 09:46 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24745

Europe: Staring Into The Abyss
Soon, the EU may be unable to compete. Meanwhile, pols bicker

By Jeffrey E. Garten


Since May, the European Union has incorporated 10 new members, presided over Europewide elections for the EU Parliament, agreed on a first-ever EU constitution, and appointed a new president of the European Commission. But no amount of political activity can camouflage Europe's potentially dismal future. And because this region now accounts for a third of the world's gross domestic product, the problems besetting the EU could have as massive an impact on the world economy as the rise of China.

The EU's economic and social model is broken. It's not just that this past decade has been one of anemic growth and double-digit unemployment for the Continent, nor that projections are for a continuation of the same. More fundamentally, Germany, France, and Italy -- which together account for over 60% of activity in the euro area -- will be unable to compete with the U.S. on one side and China on the other. They are stuck in a time when it was an asset to have cozy banking relationships, permanent job security, and sky-high government-financed entitlements.

TODAY, EUROPEAN EFFORTS to develop knowledge-based economies with robust research-and-development programs and superior universities are nowhere near enough. Even though there has been some progress in slowing trade union demands, trimming expensive social programs, and liberalizing immigration policies (as occurred in Germany recently), deep-seated changes are much too slow in coming. Meanwhile, the combination of Europe's aging populations, declining birthrates, and rising fiscal deficits make America's challenge of financing Social Security look easy.

It's no wonder that high-tech companies such as Switzerland's Novartis (NVS ) have moved their R&D to the U.S. In mid-July, DaimlerChrysler (DCX ) threatened to cut 6,000 jobs and shift substantial production overseas due to high labor costs.

The biggest problem is the increasingly dysfunctional political environment. This summer has seemed like one long public brawl. Nicolas Sarkozy, France's Finance Minister, criticized the European Central Bank for high interest rates. EU Commissioner Frits Bolkestein attacked French and German government policies to prop up industries, such as pharmaceuticals and banking. The European Commission, the European Council, and the European Court argued over who sets fiscal rules.

In June, appallingly low turnout for elections for the European Parliament showed that voters are apathetic about the EU itself. Shortly afterward, EU leaders further damaged their credibility by agreeing to a dense 300-page constitution that ordinary citizens could not possibly understand. "The EU has become too complex and too chaotic," said Victor Halberstadt, a professor of economics at the Netherlands' Leiden University and a longtime adviser to government and corporate leaders throughout the Continent. "There are no viable national solutions and no effective supranational structures," he told me in an interview.

Claude Smadja of Smadja & Associates in Geneva, a strategic adviser to companies and government entities around the world, lambastes European politicians. "They are cowards," he told me, "because they have not leveled with European citizens about how dire their circumstances are. Europeans have been deluded into thinking that incremental policy changes will work."

The upshot? We could well see a gradual increase in European protectionism as the EU fails to become globally competitive. European governments could force the European Central Bank into dangerously loose monetary policies. Politicians on the extreme right could become more attractive to highly frustrated citizens. Europe's capability to fight global poverty or finance antiterrorist activities could diminish.

Europe needs a Margaret Thatcher-type revolution, says Smadja. But given the political and cultural differences, no one national leader could have the influence on all of the EU that the Iron Lady had on Britain, says Leiden University's Halberstadt. "There is arising in Europe a sense of helplessness and hopelessness," he told me.

European integration was propelled by a vision of preventing European nations from ever again going to war with one another. Now a compelling new rationale for a true European union is necessary. Sadly, none is in sight.


Jeffrey E. Garten is dean of the Yale School of Management (jeffrey.garten@yale.edu).

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Old Post 07-25-2004 07:18 PM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

Two questions for the Europeans:

1. Do the exemptions of France and Germany from the debt ceiling concern you?

2. Would Cyprus dare to veto Turkish membership when the issue arises later this year?

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Old Post 07-25-2004 07:47 PM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

quote:
Originally posted by Risus
Maybe yankees can take a lesson from the EU and try to work together with everyone instead of just antagonizing them.........


Yeah, Chirac's collective threat towards the Eastern European states who considered supporting the gulf war was an inspiring example of the brotherhood of man.

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Old Post 07-25-2004 07:51 PM
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CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

quote:
Originally posted by Aydin
Having Maltese as an official language would be like the U.S. printing the Congressional Record in Cherokee and Samoan.


No point. Haven't you been reading TLF? Neither group can read.

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Old Post 07-25-2004 07:53 PM
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Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35656

quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Two questions for the Europeans:

1. Do the exemptions of France and Germany from the debt ceiling concern you?

2. Would Cyprus dare to veto Turkish membership when the issue arises later this year?



They aren't exempt officially, I thought, they are just breaking the rules (pursuing similar economic policies to those of George Bush, I think, although they might have embarked on them first). The rules are more to do with the euro than the EU, I think. Britain isn't in the euro, so I'm not sure how much of a say they get. Clearly it is a bad thing, for the same reason that Bush's economic policies are (and on top of that, they are breaking the rules). I'm no fan of the euro as it stands and this sort of stuff is part of the reason why.

I can't see Cyprus making life too hard for Turkey (but I didn't know that one country already in the EU could veto future membership of another). As it stands, it is stuff like police torture and murder that keeps Turkey out (which made Bush's endorsement of Turkish EU membership so charming) but should they fix that, they'll get in, I think. In any case, Greece is already in and they also have a huge grudge against Turkey; Cyprus themselves I wouldn't think would be too much of an additional problem. Turkey's main problem, with respects to membership, is its human rights record as I said.

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Last edited by Smug Git on 07-25-2004 at 08:05 PM

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Old Post 07-25-2004 08:01 PM