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JOEBIALEK
Adorable Pussycat

Registered: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 41

Terrorism

Terrorism is defined as the use of violence, torture, or physical intimidation by a group or organization as a means of forcing others to satisfy its demands. The war on terrorism between the United States and the terrorists is a conflict never experienced before in American history. Some would argue that the guerrilla tactic used by both sides in the Vietnam war is the same kind of tactic employed by the United States and the terrorists. The difference, however, is that the military tactic employed by the terrorists is a corrupt evolution from guerrilla to terror (from non-conventional to non-ethical). However the U.S. is not willing to take the war on terrorism to the appropriate level. In the movie "Untouchables", Jim Malone advises Elliot Ness that "when dealing with the Mafia, if they send one of your's to the hospital, you send one of their's to the morgue" and then asks "what are you prepared to do?" Perhaps a more appropriate question should be what would Machiavelli do?

The U.S. military needs to withdraw all conventional forces immediately from Iraq. The whole premise for going to war with that country was to disarm it of its' weapons of mass destruction (which the U.S. sold them). I supported the war effort because I believed the Bush Administration was telling the truth. Unfortuneatly, it appears the American people were deceived into fighting a war for oil and almost 750 crack U.S. troops have been killed helping to promote greed rather than defend the homeland. Once the military withdraws, it can regroup and reformulate better combat tactics to be used in the war on terrorism.

Accordingly, the U.S. needs to begin training anti-terrorist cells (with Arabic code names that translate into al-gabang, al-gaboom etc). These cells will be sent into countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya for the express purpose of covert operations to find, kill and terrorize all pro-terrorist cells. As for prisoners, they should be drugged with sodium pentathol until they provide information and then be executed. At the end of the day when the terrorist comes home to find his family and house blown to smithereens, he may begin to re-consider the consequences of his actions. Unfortuneatly, innocent family members of these terrorists will have to face the same fate many U.S. citizens did on September 11, 2001. The question that remains before the American people however is what are YOU prepared to do?

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Old Post 05-16-2004 01:48 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24755

Annihilate all those that oppose us (except some of the French, we might need chefs) and laugh raucously over the the lamenting of the captured women. Next question please.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 02:41 AM
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Hawley Prime
³

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Iceland
Posts: 974

Re: Terrorism

quote:
Originally posted by JOEBIALEK
The question that remains before the American people however is what are YOU prepared to do?


dunno..ask me after ive marched patriotically into the nearby MacDonald's

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Old Post 05-16-2004 03:06 AM
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euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 16728

one time, i was eating my lunch at school, and I was really hungry and usually lunch time meant smoking lots of cigarettes at the far side of the playground, but i had been out all night drinking and I was starving and I was eating my shoestring french fries and noticed a black curly hair there in my tray where my fries were kinds floating in the grease and I just took it out and kept eating my fries. I’m so hardcore.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 03:08 AM
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euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 16728

quote:
Originally posted by euphorbia
one time, i was eating my lunch at school, and I was really hungry and usually lunch time meant smoking lots of cigarettes at the far side of the playground, but i had been out all night drinking and I was starving and I was eating my shoestring french fries and noticed a black curly hair there in my tray where my fries were kinds floating in the grease and I just took it out and kept eating my fries. I’m so hardcore.


Oh, and so my post doesnt get edited...I also hate the joos. not just one of them, all of them…broadly and generally, no exceptions.


thank you for your time.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 03:10 AM
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Talarohk
The Pedanticator

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 5154

Re: Terrorism

quote:
Originally posted by JOEBIALEK
Accordingly, the U.S. needs to begin training anti-terrorist cells (with Arabic code names that translate into al-gabang, al-gaboom etc). These cells will be sent into countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya for the express purpose of covert operations to find, kill and terrorize all pro-terrorist cells. As for prisoners, they should be drugged with sodium pentathol until they provide information and then be executed. At the end of the day when the terrorist comes home to find his family and house blown to smithereens, he may begin to re-consider the consequences of his actions. Unfortuneatly, innocent family members of these terrorists will have to face the same fate many U.S. citizens did on September 11, 2001. The question that remains before the American people however is what are YOU prepared to do?

One issue with your proposal: you are advocating creating these anti-terrorist cells, and giving them the authority to identify and kill terrorists. How, exactly, will you keep control of them? If they are operating under cover, it will presumably be difficult for them to confirm intelligence with their commanders in the States...so it seems likely to me that they will be identifying "terrorists" based on information they can gather by themselves. If you hypothesize that they will be pursuing their missions with considerable zeal, it seems likely that they will sometimes identify a "terrorist" who is nothing of the sort. So then they have killed this innocent and his or her family.
From the perspective of Saudi Arabia, what you have is a foreign power planting undercover agents in your land, whose job it is to assassinate people (who may or may not be military targets) and their families. It sounds familiar, somehow.
The same goes for the prisoners you are drugging and executing. How are you going to be sure that they are guilty? Will they be tried and sentenced, or will this be done at the discretion of the capturer?
If these anti-terrorists are caught, are they prisoners of war or enemy combatants? Should the foreign power give them a fair trial, or detain them indefinitely without review?

Should these rules apply to domestic terrorists as well? US citizens?

Basically, what you have said sounds to me like "If you can't beat them, join them".

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Old Post 05-16-2004 06:08 AM
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lion2000
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 70

Dear Talarohk
You are aright but you miss a point, all terrorist in the world has been created sponsored by American government, like bin laden etc, if American Gov is so good creating them why can't disarticulate them?

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Old Post 05-16-2004 09:17 AM
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philjit
Arch-Enemy of Idealism

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

_all_ terrorists in the world have been created and sponsored by the US government? Are you on crack?

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Old Post 05-16-2004 09:47 AM
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lion2000
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 70

Well i rephrase, America did created bin ladin, isn't he to worse of all terrorist?

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Old Post 05-16-2004 10:00 AM
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lion2000
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 70

Wasn’t he trained and sponsored by the USA Gov?

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Why?

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Old Post 05-16-2004 10:02 AM
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euphorbia
caustic milk - hybrid

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 16728

quote:
Originally posted by lion2000
Well i rephrase, America did created bin ladin, isn't he to worse of all terrorist?



no we did not create bin ladin, you are misinformed and repeating mantras of the empty headed...not that Im calling you empty headed just that youre talking like those (a general term) who tend to be, i would say ignorant but that would be bad and probably edited because the meaning of the word holds no value in pdm only the subjective values placed on the word. So I wont call you ignorant, or dim, or tell you to go slap your mother, that would be wrong and unacceptable.

Bin Ladin just happened to be supporting the same cause as us when we were in the cold war with russia; we trying to keep our cold war enemy from gaining more resources, bin ladin had money pouring out of his ass and in his college years had been turned on to fundamentalism by a cleric he met and wanted to keep the russian infidels out of Afghanistan for his own reasons. We did not recruit him, we did not fund him he had his own money and motivation, we were just supporting the same cause for different reasons.
Insulting you would be wrong in pdm, but meritorious.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 02:38 PM
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Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35658

I guess that the main thing is that to some extent the US armed the muhjadeen, including bin Laden's lot (with cool stuff like stingers, which might be handy for shooting down airliners, I guess). The jihaddis probably don't need lessons in terrorism from anyone, though.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 02:46 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24755

quote:
Originally posted by euphorbia
Oh, and so my post doesnt get edited...I also hate the joos. not just one of them, all of them…broadly and generally, no exceptions.


thank you for your time.



I guess it's safe to say that you and my wife won't be schmoozing any time soon.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 03:14 PM
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Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35658

Another internet-arranged threeway fails.

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Old Post 05-16-2004 03:32 PM
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lion2000
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 70

Euphorbia
Thanks for the info, but is not what i know, the US government words, not mine, his bin laden mistake is to turn against US interest in the Middle East. That was he became the black sheep. But you may be right, who knows the real story?

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Old Post 05-16-2004 06:46 PM
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zim
-

Registered: Dec 2002
Location:
Posts: 3063

The real story is well known to anyone who bothers research it outside the bounds of the internet, and only moderately difficult to determine using the Internet as your sole research medium.

Bin Laden was not trained, nor was he financed by the United States of America. During the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the United States had reason to wish for the Soviets to fail. To see to it that this came to pass while maintaining a semblance of plausible deniability, the US limited it's forces in Afghanistan to covert observers and sent no funding directly into the nation.

The funding that the US sent into Afghanistan went by way of two different paths. Many Islamic Americans sent money in via a network of charity organizations; many of those same organizations were recently closed by the US. The remainder of the financing, the financing sent by the US government itself, was sent not to bin Laden, but to Pakistan.

The US sent money into Pakistan and Pakistan was given the task of diseminating the funds within Afghanistan. Pakistan was not directed who to and who not to grant US finances to. Their intelligence services saw fit to assist a group known as the 'afghan arabs' who were not of afghan origin. While bin laden was one of the afghan arabs, and a prominent one at that, the funds were most likely not diverted to him by Pakistan's ISI (Inter Services Intelligence) because he, as is well known, is independently wealthy.

So it all comes down to what euphorbia said. Contrary to popular belief, the US did not create bin Laden. Also contrary to popular belief, we were not his original target. With all the anger he has for us has even more for Saudi Arabia, the nation he calls 'the land of the two holy places.'

quote:
Steve Coll, Washington Post, July 19, 1992.
In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166*,...[which] authorize[d] stepped-up covert military aid to the mujahideen, and it made clear that the secret Afghan war had a new goal: to defeat Soviet troops in Afghanistan through covert action and encourage a Soviet withdrawal. The new covert U.S. assistance began with a dramatic increase in arms supplies -- a steady rise to 65,000 tons annually by 1987, ... as well as a "ceaseless stream" of CIA and Pentagon specialists who traveled to the secret headquarters of Pakistan's ISI on the main road near Rawalpindi, Pakistan. There the CIA specialists met with Pakistani intelligence officers to help plan operations for the Afghan rebels.
Sorta sums up the relationship. We gave the ISI funding and training and reccomended paramilitary operations for them to in turn reccomend to the afghan arabs, the mujahadeen. They then finances, armed, and trained the Afghan's themselves. Bin Laden was unaware of any assistance being provided by the US.
quote:
Weekend Sunday (NPR); Eric Weiner, Ted Clark; 16 August 1998.
In the words of bin Laden (quoted by Beardman): "neither I, nor my brothers saw evidence of American help"


And now here's where I run the risk of being edited: ** If you want to continue spouting on with your statist rhetoric shut your eyes, place your fingers firmly in your ears and commence the audible assertion of the usual mantra "im not listening, im not listening, im not listening." If instead, you wish to educate yourself as to the truth of the situation, go to a book store or a library and start reading some history. I'd reccomend Peter Bergen's Holy War Inc. for starters. It outlines the way that the terror cells work, shows bin laden's work in many different international incidents, and puts his assertions in a more neutral light.

*It's interesting to note that I did a little research on NSDD 166, and it seems that as of yet "the document has not been reviewed for release or release has been denied in full."


**edited for her pleasure

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Last edited by CHiPsJr on 11-09-2006 at 08:23 AM

Last edited by zim on 05-17-2004 at 03:10 AM

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Old Post 05-17-2004 02:27 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24755

quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Another internet-arranged threeway fails.



HAHAHAHAHAHA! You funny fuck! Show us your pernts! I'll give you not one until you do.

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