Registered: Aug 2000
Location: In a Blue, Blue State
Posts: 13054

Report: Soldiers say they are being threatened with Iraq duty
posted by: Dan Viens (Web Producer)
Created: 9/16/2004 11:22 AM MDT - Updated: 9/16/2004 11:22 AM MDT




COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) - Soldiers from a combat unit at Fort Carson say they have been told to re-enlist for three more years or be transferred to other units expected to deploy to Iraq, the Rocky Mountain News reported Thursday.

Hundreds of soldiers from the 3rd Brigade Combat Team were presented with that message and a re-enlistment form in a series of assemblies last week, two soldiers who spoke on condition of anonymity told the newspaper.

"They said if you refuse to re-enlist with the 3rd Brigade, we'll send you down to the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, which is going to Iraq for a year, and you can stay with them, or we'll send you to Korea, or to Fort Riley (in Kansas) where they're going to Iraq," said one of the soldiers, a sergeant.

The second soldier, an enlisted man, echoed that view: "They told us if we don't re-enlist, then we'd have to be reassigned. And where we're most needed is in units that are going back to Iraq in the next couple of months. So if you think you're getting out, you're not."

The sergeant told the News the threat has outraged soldiers who are close to fulfilling their service obligation.

"We have a whole platoon who refuses to sign," he said.

An unidentified Fort Carson spokesman said Wednesday that 3rd Brigade recruitment officers denied threatening the soldiers with more duty in Iraq.

"I can only tell you what the retention officers told us: The soldiers were not being told they will go to Iraq, but they may go to Iraq," said the spokesman, who confirmed the re-enlistment drive is under way.

One of the soldiers provided the form to the News. If signed, it would bind the soldier to the 3rd Brigade until Dec. 31, 2007.

An Army spokesman, Lt. Col. Gerard Healy, said sending soldiers to Iraq with less than one year of their enlistment remaining "would not be taken lightly."

"There's probably a lot of places on post where they could put those folks (who don't re-enlist) until their time expires," he said. "But I don't want to rule out the possibility that they could go to a unit that might deploy."

Extending a soldier's active duty is within Army authority, since the enlistment contract carries an eight-year obligation, even if a soldier signs up for shorter terms. Members of Iraq-bound units can be retained for an entire year in Iraq, even if their active-duty enlistment expires.

"I don't want to go back to Iraq," the sergeant told the News. "I went through a lot of things for the Army that weren't necessary and were risky. Iraq has changed a lot of people."

The enlisted soldier said the recruiters' message left him "filled with dread."

"For me, it wasn't about going back to Iraq. It's just the fact that I'm ready to get out of the Army," he said.

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?...47-c589c01ca7bf

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This could become quite a scandal.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: In a Blue, Blue State
Posts: 13054

Also this......

Carson soldiers say they're being strong-armed to re-enlist

By Erin Emery
Denver Post Staff Writer





Colorado Springs - Soldiers from Fort Carson say they are being strong- armed into re-enlisting and are being told that if they don't, they'll be sent to Iraq or Korea, or to another unit headed for Iraq.

Soldiers with the 3rd Brigade Combat Team were briefed at meetings last week and given a document: "Fort Carson Reenlistment Option Intent Statement."

The document asks whether soldiers will re-enlist by the end of the month or extend their duty until Dec. 31, 2007, and remain with the 3rd Brigade Combat Team.

A third option says: "Elect not to extend or reenlist and understand that the soldier will be reassigned in accordance with the needs of the Army ... or Fort Carson."

Fort Carson denied that soldiers have been threatened and said the briefings have been misinterpreted. Fort Carson said it is exceeding its re-enlistment goals.



A 23-year-old sergeant who spoke on the condition of anonymity said: "They're screwing with a lot of soldiers' lives right now. They said that if we didn't re-enlist, we would be sent to the 3rd ACR (Armored Cavalry Regiment), which is leaving for Iraq, or 'We will send you to another unit that's going to Iraq."'

A 24-year-old sergeant said he had already signed a paper saying he would not re-enlist or extend his service.

"They said, 'You're already going to Iraq,' and they ripped up my paper," said the soldier, who also requested that his name not be used.

Lt. Col. David Johnson, spokesman for Fort Carson, said, "They're interpreting what's being told to them wrong."

Johnson said soldiers are asked to fill out the form so the Army can determine the strength of the force. The Army's goal is to have cohesive units that stick together for three years with little turnover.

Under what is called "life cycle management," soldiers spend two months in a "reset" phase, four months in training and 30 months as a "ready force."

Johnson said the Army would take a hard look at deploying someone with less than a year to serve. He said, however, a soldier could be deployed, depending upon the Army's needs.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0...2407475,00.html

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4688

Yah the entire military is pretty much like this.

Basically, the top people get kudos for meeting or exceeding "retention goals" which they usually meet by offering you incentives like preferred duty stations or reenlistment bonuses. In the Navy you're guaranteed duty stations so you typically can't be "reassigned" somewhere at the drop of a hat (although it's been known to happen). So, for us, it usually occurs around rotation time, because enlistments are for four years and tours of duty are three years, so with one year left they try to pressure you to stay in by threatening to rotate you somewhere shitty. Like Iraq or some country ending in "-stan."

The Army has it worse because you don't even get a guaranteed job--you might sign up thinking you're going to be a cook or a radioman and hey, that day they need an extra machine gunner, so guess where you're going?

Anyway, yeah, I believe that shit 100%.

By the time I get out I will have served 6 years. But they can still pull your ass back in for 2 more :\

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Behind this monitor.
Posts: 6468

quote:

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Originally posted by squee
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By the time I get out I will have served 6 years. But they can still pull your ass back in for 2 more :\ [/B]

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16784

they joined the armed forces out of their own free will knowing that they will be used to kill people or get killed, and now when it comes to doing what they are used for, they don't like it

morons

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 4501

Not everything is made clear at enlistment time. In fact, some recruiters have left out important education benefits in the contracts signed by new people. Sometimes, the new people have to ask or insist on something being included that they actually have a right to, anyway.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4688

No, you're all missing the point.

What military people take exception to is being threatened with your own job (or a shit detail variation thereof) as "punishment" for not reenlisting. You are only supposed to be penalized for violating the UCMJ and so forth--and yet people in the power structure try it anyway. Assholes.

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

..........weird, been listening to this at least twice daily of late......

quote:

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STIFF LITTLE FINGERS LYRICS

"Tin Soldiers"

He joined up to get a job
And show he wasn't scared
Swapped boy scout hat for army cap
At the age of 17 he was forced to choose
Now at the age of 21 he's in Catch 22

He joined up for just three years
It seemed a small amount
But they didn't tell him
That the first two didn't count
At the age of 17 how was he to know
That at the age of 21 he'd still have one to go?

[Chorus:]
Tin soldier
He signed away his name
Tin soldier
No chance for cash or fame
Tin soldier
Now he knows the truth
Tin soldier
He signed away his youth

He joined up cos Dad knew best
To do right by his son
Now he hates and counts the dates
That mark time on square one
At the age of 17 he did as he was told
Now at the age of 21 tin still won't turn to gold

[Chorus]
If at the age of 17 you fall in line too soon
At the age of 21 you'll still march to their tune

Tin soldiers
You sign away your name
No chance for cash or fame
You never see the truth
You sign away your youth
You go and join the queue
Do what they want you to
They take away your name
They treat you all the same
Sign away you life

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

The bottom line is that once you are in, you basically become property of the Federal government. I am always really surprised when people are shocked that you might have to fight or you may not get to do what you want when you join an armed service.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4688

quote:

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Originally posted by DevilMoon
The bottom line is that once you are in, you basically become property of the Federal government. I am always really surprised when people are shocked that you might have to fight or you may not get to do what you want when you join an armed service.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

quote:

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Originally posted by squee
Dmoon, no offense, but I think you may be ignorant of the subject matter.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10150

And if they wanted you to have a wife (/husband), they would issue one to you. GI = Government Issue = owned.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Behind this monitor.
Posts: 6468

I am ignorant about it..help me out..

By your words..

quote:

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quote:

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Originally posted by squee

By the time I get out I will have served 6 years. But they can still pull your ass back in for 2 more :\ [/B]

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 11291

Since Skalie opened up for sentimental anti-enlistment lyrics:

quote:

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MARILLION

"Forgotten Sons"

Armalite, street lights, nightsights
Searching the roofs for a sniper, a viper, a fighter
Death in the shadows he'll maim you, he'll wound you, he'll kill you
For a long forgotten cause
On not so foreign shores
Boys baptised in war
Boys baptised in war

Morphine, chill scream, bad dream
Serving as numbers on dogtags, flakrags, sandbags
Your girl has married your best friend, loves end, poison pen
Your flesh will always creep, tossing turning sleep
The wounds that burn so deep, so deep

Your mother sits on the edge of the world when the cameras start to roll
Panoramic viewpoint resurrect the killing fold
Your father drains another beer, he's one of the few that cares
Crawling behind a Saracen's hull from the safety of his living room chair
Forgotten Sons
Forgotten Sons
Forgotten Sons

And so as I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the Tricolour I must fear evil
For I am but mortal and mortals can only die
Asking questions, pleading answers from the nameless faceless watchers
That parade the carpeted corridors of Whitehall
Who order desecration, mutilation, verbal masturbation in their guarded bureaucratic wombs
Minister, Minister care for your children
Order them not into damnation
To eliminate those who would trespass against you
For whose is the kingdom, the power, the glory for ever and ever
Amen
Amen
Amen
Amen
Amen
Amen
Amen

"Halt, who goes there!"
"Death"
"Approach ... friend"
You're just another coffin on its way down the emerald aisle
When your children's stony glances mourn
Your death in a terrorist's smile
The bomber's arm placing fiery gifts on the supermarket shelves
Alley sings with shrapnel detonate a temporary hell
Forgotten Sons
Forgotten Sons

From the dolequeue to the regiment, a profession in a flash
But remember Monday signings when from door to door you dash
On the news a nation mourns you, unknown soldier count the cost
For a second you'll be famous but labelled posthumous

Ring-a-ring-o-roses, they all fall down
Ring-a-ring-o-roses, they all fall down
Ring-a-ring-o-roses
Ring-a-ring-o-roses
Ring-a-ring-o-roses, they all fall down

Forgotten Son
Forgotten Son
Forgotten Son
They're still forgotten, they're still still forgotten
Peace on earth and mercy mild, Mother Brown has lost her child
Just another Forgotten Son

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Last edited by Coincidence on 09-18-2004 at 12:57 AM

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4688

No doubt.

What does it say about men who only want to die in glory?
What does it say about men who only want to live in obscurity?

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 16728

quote:

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Originally posted by T


Tell me why they would pull your ass back in for 2 more years? There must be some kinda supply/demand thing going on.. Granted if it was Peace time they would have no demand.

These guys in the article..they are still in the forces right..? They are still responsible to finish their time they signed for right..? The government stations them where they want them..right..?

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Last edited by euphorbia on 09-18-2004 at 02:17 AM

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10150

The normal course of affairs is that for a four-year enlistment, you also incur a two-year inactive reserve commitment. That can get changed or even eliminated if you reenlist beyond that first four years.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: In a Blue, Blue State
Posts: 13054

What is most objectional to all this is, as it was put on another forum, is that this is like an insurance agent telling you is you better buy my insurance or you might have an "accident" happen.

Yes, the military has you for eight in one way or another - some equation of service time + reserve time. Yes, due to military needs at the time you can have your service time extended beyond what you signed-up for (the Stop Loss situation is a good example of this). But it is utter bullshit to threaten servicemen with "re-up or else" crap, especially when the "or else" is to be sent to Iraq.

"It's not just a job - it's blackmail."

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Houston
Posts: 545

It is unfortunate that recruiters don't always tell you the details of your contract. If they did, the military would never make its quota and we would more than likely have a draft or obligated service. Most people, I included, never really paid attention to that extra four years of inactive duty. But I eventually knew that I could be called back. My obligation ended four years ago so I can't seriously imagine the reality of being called back up to active duty. The idealistic side of me wants to say that my obligation is my word and I would follow orders. I certainly wouldn't be happy about it though.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4688

quote:

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Originally posted by MstrG
The normal course of affairs is that for a four-year enlistment, you also incur a two-year inactive reserve commitment. That can get changed or even eliminated if you reenlist beyond that first four years.

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