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Last Man

Registered: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 2042
The demise of the common reality

There seems to be a collapse in the idea of a common reality. Whereas before there seemed to be a common social space that everyone shared and in which noone had much privacy or it just didn't matter, now people seem to be increasingly "sunk" into their own worlds whenever they are outside their family/job atmosphere. Can you think of any place in real life that resembles a forum like this, where people can socialize regardless of the nature of their individual "island universe"? Bars and cafes tend to attract a certain type of folk, who don't really go there to meet others and discuss issues of the day (or whatever else).

This is negative because it leads to the monopolization of what may be called an everyday reality consciousness- by people in positions of power rather than the common folk. The last time there was a public arena where any and all could join in the fray and offer their two cents may have been the Second World War.

The specialization of industry and the advent of special interest organizations and lobby groups (and gender/race identity politics) has only contributed to the destruction of this common reality. It has become an age where "who you are" trumps "what you happen to be thinking today about whatever".

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Old Post 09-20-2004 10:33 AM
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Vyper
Psychodynamic

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Veerheenyah
Posts: 3300
Re: The demise of the common reality

quote:
Originally posted by plum
Can you think of any place in real life that resembles a forum like this, where people can socialize regardless of the nature of their individual "island universe"?


IHOP at 3:00am. There used to be a big group (probably 15-20) of us that went there just about every night and sat around until 3-4 in the morning just talking about mostly bullshit, but occasionally a serious topic would slip in.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 12:40 PM
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RoOsTeR13
Lovable Limey, No Hair

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: US of Fuckin' A!!!!
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Oh stop fucking crying and get a job you baby.

You have just as much right and ability to join a social fray as ever plum... The pathetic anti war/Bush/Capitalism/Logic rallies are evidence of this...

The higher up the social scale you move, your old problems are replaced by new ones and they are just as demanding as the old ones. You dont get some nice new time to sit around and forge a new reality.... For God's sake drop the class warfare bullplop and accept reality for what it is....


You are unhappy, your girlfriend/boyfriend dumped you and you dont have enough time on your hands. Nobody in your social sphere wants to listen to you rant on about bullshit and avoids you like you were a bad case of eye ebola. Soooooo you make up some nice little fantasy where it isnt you who is the problem, blaming your ass life on the rich..... It is the social elite who are destroying your reality and making people hate you.


Case solved.... Get a grip.... Stop crying and join the rest of us in the 'real' world.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 01:54 PM
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Coincidence
Aka 'others'

Registered: Apr 2004
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Wow. Have a bitch pernt, R13.

"Accept reality for what it is", ha ha.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 02:29 PM
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plum
Last Man

Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by RoOsTeR13
The higher up the social scale you move, your old problems are replaced by new ones and they are just as demanding as the old ones. You dont get some nice new time to sit around and forge a new reality.... For God's sake drop the class warfare bullplop and accept reality for what it is....


You are unhappy, your girlfriend/boyfriend dumped you and you dont have enough time on your hands. Nobody in your social sphere wants to listen to you rant on about bullshit and avoids you like you were a bad case of eye ebola. Soooooo you make up some nice little fantasy where it isnt you who is the problem, blaming your ass life on the rich..... It is the social elite who are destroying your reality and making people hate you.


Case solved.... Get a grip.... Stop crying and join the rest of us in the 'real' world.


I'm always pleased to be offered a complementary psychological profile. You do justice to the name of this site.

You seem to be suggesting that I ought to accept the status quo for whatever it is, rather than question it or expose its faults and hypothesize on how it could be better, and that doing this is an indication of maturity. But I couldn't disagree more; it is precisely that sort of thinking that narcissists and nihilists in power try to encourage, since it maintains our ignorance of how things really are.

As Orwell observed, power in this world is psychological. The inquisitive nature of ordinary people is what keeps them from believing that 2 + 2 = 5. What you refer to as your "real" world is indeed the one where 2 + 2 =5. It's the one that blinds you to what's "in front of your nose", and prevents you from engaging in intelligent conversations with others- regardless of their background. It's one where there is less equality, less independent thought, and more conformity.

Btw, I have a PT job and am working on the gf thing. And believe it or not, I don't live in a shack in the forest.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 04:56 PM
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Pinecrika
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Reality is highly overated. That's what the voices tell me.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 05:01 PM
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SocialParasite
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RoOfLeS13: Always there when you need him to tell you to get a haircut and a real job.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 05:10 PM
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RoOsTeR13
Lovable Limey, No Hair

Registered: Aug 2004
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yeah yeah fine plumb..... But i dont think i need to have my reality questioned just cos you seem pissed off with yours.


I may not have the desire to sit about stinking of petchuli, drinking girlie drinks and waxing semantic about the inequities of the rich and the tyranny of evil men but that doesnt mean that my life or 'reality' is any less real or effective than yours. It just means that i am more at peace in my world, i see the flaws it is just that the flaws in my world differ from yours.

Now like i said earlier.... Get a grip and stop spewing out pseudo-philosophical nonsense that in the end will affect nobody and will only serve to bore the tits off of most of those who should be so unfortunate to read it.... DAMN YOU MAN THIS IS LIKE, 15 MINUTES, I WILL NEVER GET BACK!!!!

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Old Post 09-20-2004 06:00 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by RoOsTeR13

.... DAMN YOU MAN THIS IS LIKE, 15 MINUTES, I WILL NEVER GET BACK!!!!


That's assuming any of this ever really happened.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 06:14 PM
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RoOsTeR13
Lovable Limey, No Hair

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: US of Fuckin' A!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
Wow. Have a bitch pernt, R13.




ooooo thank you. Any pernt is a good pernt.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 06:15 PM
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RoOsTeR13
Lovable Limey, No Hair

Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
That's assuming any of this ever really happened.



Now lets not even go there.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 06:16 PM
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T
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What would you do for a happy meal?

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Old Post 09-20-2004 07:34 PM
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Aydin
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It's spelled "hippy."

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Old Post 09-20-2004 07:37 PM
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willimo
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Registered: Jan 2003
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Re: The demise of the common reality

I really don't see your differentiation between this place and cafes bars. They both attract a "certain kind of folk" and the ones I've been to are full of people talking about the issues of the day, a lot like this place.

quote:
Originally posted by plum
This is negative because it leads to the monopolization of what may be called an everyday reality consciousness- by people in positions of power rather than the common folk. The last time there was a public arena where any and all could join in the fray and offer their two cents may have been the Second World War.


Really? Where? I don't think this utopian world full of common folk driven reality consciousness ever existed. Give me an example. Just how is this monoploy imposed? With mass media? Give me one example, one true example, where people were involved enough with their world to not be getting information from just a handful of sources. You'd undoubtedly have to go back to even before history was recorded. Yeah, controlling information is controlling people, but it's always been that way. Maybe it's not right, but to claim there was a time when this wasn't the case reflects poorly on your argument as a whole.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 08:26 PM
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Coincidence
Aka 'others'

Registered: Apr 2004
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I think he does have a point - especially because hundreds of sociologists have claimed the same thing, Baudrillard for one.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 08:40 PM
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torque
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Sociologists probably spend all their time hanging out in coffee bars though. So it's all skewed.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 09:01 PM
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Aydin
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Baudrillard sounds a little too French for my liking.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 09:30 PM
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Cockney_Rebel
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Registered: Nov 2003
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Simulacra and simulation? Meh!

There is no spoon.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 09:33 PM
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.

Attachment: picture 233.jpg
This has been downloaded 72 time(s).

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Old Post 09-20-2004 09:35 PM
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plum
Last Man

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Re: Re: The demise of the common reality

quote:
Originally posted by willimo
Really? Where? I don't think this utopian world full of common folk driven reality consciousness ever existed. Give me an example. Just how is this monoploy imposed? With mass media? Give me one example, one true example, where people were involved enough with their world to not be getting information from just a handful of sources. You'd undoubtedly have to go back to even before history was recorded. Yeah, controlling information is controlling people, but it's always been that way. Maybe it's not right, but to claim there was a time when this wasn't the case reflects poorly on your argument as a whole.


In more agrarian societies, with less diversification of labour, there is less explicit individuality because people are tied closer to the land, and hence the fundamentals of everyday life. They share the same interests out of necessity, hence the same basic information that doesn't need outside sources.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 09:42 PM
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Mugtoe
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can't we have "brain trust" pernts or somethin? plum thinks I'm horny for him with all the UH pernts he's got.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 09:50 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

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quote:
Originally posted by Aydin
Baudrillard sounds a little too French for my liking.


Indeed. [P]

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Old Post 09-20-2004 10:04 PM
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Coincidence
Aka 'others'

Registered: Apr 2004
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Well, Scott Lash then.

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It's a tough war we're in. It's not going to be over right away. There's going to be other wars. I'm sorry to tell you, there's going to be other wars. We will never surrender but there will be other wars. And right now - we're gonna have a lot of PTSD to treat, my friends.

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Old Post 09-20-2004 10:55 PM
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Coincidence
Aka 'others'

Registered: Apr 2004
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For example:

In contrast to the good old days
"Lash identifies “an entire other economy of signs in space”—a semiotics of mimetic symbols. They make possible an aesthetic, as opposed to a cognitive, reflexivity. (135) These mimetic symbols are “the commoditized, intellectual property of the culture industries”; but they also are portals for “the popularization of aesthetic critique.” That critique targets the very complex of “power/knowledge” that the symbols themselves constitute! (135)
This reflexive aestheticism is “the grounding principle of ‘expressive individualism’ in everyday life of contemporary consumer capitalism.” "

"Lash argues that postmodern anti-foundationalists (he counts among them Nietzsche, Benjamin, Adorno, Derrida, Rorty, Bauman) “presume a