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Eh, just because nobody else seems to be doing this thread. It's all over the news here, rightly, so I'll assume you're all at least familiar with the story. Basically, Rumsfeld went to Kuwait this week and took questions from the troops. They proceeded to grill him on conditions over there, and he shot back with his usual arrogance and condescension. On the question of why troops were still dying due to inadequate armor, his response was basically "Eh, shit happens, don't be girly men".

A primer story:

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Army Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th Regimental Combat Team, which is made up mainly of citizen soldiers of the Tennessee Army National Guard, asked Rumsfeld in a question-and-answer session why vehicle armor is still in short supply, nearly two years after the war started.

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" Wilson asked. A big cheer arose from the approximately 2,300 soldiers in the cavernous hangar who assembled to see and hear the secretary of defense.

Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question.

"We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north," Wilson said after asking again.

Rumsfeld replied that, "You go to war with the Army you have," not the one you might want".

And, the defense chief added, armor is not always a savior in the kind of combat U.S. troops face in Iraq, where the insurgents' weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device that has killed and maimed hundreds, if not thousands, of American troops since the summer of 2003.

"You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up," Rumsfeld said.

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You can find the transcript of the whole soldier Q & A session, again, here. The relevent bit:

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Q: Yes, Mr. Secretary. My question is more logistical. We’ve had troops in Iraq for coming up on three years and we’ve always staged here out of Kuwait. Now why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromise ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles and why don’t we have those resources readily available to us? [Applause]

SEC. RUMSFELD: I missed the first part of your question. And could you repeat it for me?

Q: Yes, Mr. Secretary. Our soldiers have been fighting in Iraq for coming up on three years. A lot of us are getting ready to move north relatively soon. Our vehicles are not armored. We’re digging pieces of rusted scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass that’s already been shot up, dropped, busted, picking the best out of this scrap to put on our vehicles to take into combat. We do not have proper armament vehicles to carry with us north.

SEC. RUMSFELD: I talked to the General coming out here about the pace at which the vehicles are being armored. They have been brought from all over the world, wherever they’re not needed, to a place here where they are needed. I’m told that they are being – the Army is – I think it’s something like 400 a month are being done. And it’s essentially a matter of physics. It isn’t a matter of money. It isn’t a matter on the part of the Army of desire. It’s a matter of production and capability of doing it.

As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They’re not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. Since the Iraq conflict began, the Army has been pressing ahead to produce the armor necessary at a rate that they believe – it’s a greatly expanded rate from what existed previously, but a rate that they believe is the rate that is all that can be accomplished at this moment.

I can assure you that General Schoomaker and the leadership in the Army and certainly General Whitcomb are sensitive to the fact that not every vehicle has the degree of armor that would be desirable for it to have, but that they’re working at it at a good clip. It’s interesting, I’ve talked a great deal about this with a team of people who’ve been working on it hard at the Pentagon. And if you think about it, you can have all the armor in the world on a tank and a tank can be blown up. And you can have an up-armored humvee and it can be blown up. And you can go down and, the vehicle, the goal we have is to have as many of those vehicles as is humanly possible with the appropriate level of armor available for the troops. And that is what the Army has been working on.

And General Whitcomb, is there anything you’d want to add to that?

GEN. WHITCOMB: Nothing. [Laughter] Mr. Secretary, I’d be happy to. That is a focus on what we do here in Kuwait and what is done up in the theater, both in Iraq and also in Afghanistan. As the secretary has said, it’s not a matter of money or desire; it is a matter of the logistics of being able to produce it. The 699th, the team that we’ve got here in Kuwait has done [Cheers] a tremendous effort to take that steel that they have and cut it, prefab it and put it on vehicles. But there is nobody from the president on down that is not aware that this is a challenge for us and this is a desire for us to accomplish.

SEC. RUMSFELD: The other day, after there was a big threat alert in Washington, D.C. in connection with the elections, as I recall, I looked outside the Pentagon and there were six or eight up-armored humvees. They’re not there anymore. [Cheers] [Applause] They’re en route out here, I can assure you. Next. Way in the back. Yes.

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quote:

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RUMSFELD SET UP; REPORTER PLANTED QUESTIONS WITH SOLIDER
Thu Dec 09 2004 11:49:38 ET

Chattanooga Times Free Press reporter Edward Lee Pitts is embedded with the 278th Regimental Combat Team, now in Kuwait preparing to enter Iraq, and is filing articles for his newspaper. Pitts claims in a purported email that he coached soldiers to ask Defense Secretary Rumsfeld questions!

When reached Thursday morning, various Chattanooga Times Free Press staffers offered 'no comment' on the development.

From: EDWARD LEE PITTS, MILITARY AFFAIRS
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2004 4:44 PM
To: Staffers

Subject: RE: Way to go

I just had one of my best days as a journalist today. As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. I was told yesterday that only soldiers could ask questions so I brought two of them along with me as my escorts. Before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have. While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd.

So during the Q&A session, one of my guys was the second person called on. When he asked Rumsfeld why after two years here soldiers are still having to dig through trash bins to find rusted scrap metal and cracked ballistic windows for their Humvees, the place erupted in cheers so loud that Rumsfeld had to ask the guy to repeat his question. Then Rumsfeld answered something about it being "not a lack of desire or money but a logistics/physics problem." He said he recently saw about 8 of the special up-armored Humvees guarding Washington, DC, and he promised that they would no longer be used for that and that he would send them over here. Then he asked a three star general standing behind him, the commander of all ground forces here, to also answer the question. The general said it was a problem he is working on.

The great part was that after the event was over the throng of national media following Rumsfeld- The New York Times, AP, all the major networks -- swarmed to the two soldiers I brought from the unit I am embedded with. Out of the 1,000 or so troops at the event there were only a handful of guys from my unit b/c the rest were too busy prepping for our trip north. The national media asked if they were the guys with the armor problem and then stuck cameras in their faces. The NY Times reporter asked me to email him the stories I had already done on it, but I said he could search for them himself on the Internet and he better not steal any of my lines. I have been trying to get this story out for weeks- as soon as I foud out I would be on an unarmored truck- and my paper published two stories on it. But it felt good to hand it off to the national press. I believe lives are at stake with so many soldiers going across the border riding with scrap metal as protection. It may be to late for the unit I am with, but hopefully not for those who come after.

The press officer in charge of my regiment, the 278th, came up to me afterwords and asked if my story would be positive. I replied that I would write the truth. Then I pointed at the horde of national media pointing cameras and mics at the 278th guys and said he had bigger problems on his hands than the Chattanooga Times Free Press. This is what this job is all about - people need to know. The solider who asked the question said he felt good b/c he took his complaints to the top. When he got back to his unit most of the guys patted him on the back but a few of the officers were upset b/c they thought it would make them look bad. From what I understand this is all over the news back home.

Thanks,

Lee

EDWARD LEE PITTS FILED STORY ABOUT THE TROOPS BEFORE THE POW-WOW WITH RUMSFELD

Developing...

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Define the goals. Only once that is done can you say whether or not a specific behavior is counterproductive.

Are the goals as stated publicly - removing Sadaam (done), and democritization in Iraq (essentially impossible)? Or are they personal goals for the leadership - such as revenge against the man who attacked your daddy, or the enrichment of the company(ies) you are affiliated with?

Again, define the REAL goals and objectives, then follow the money. It will lead you to the reality of who truly controls, and who is enriched by the manipulation of power.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Link

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Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Armor Holdings Inc., the sole supplier of protective plates for the Humvee military vehicles used in Iraq, said it could increase output by as much as 22 percent per month with no investment and is awaiting an order from the Army.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
Yeah, I'm sure.

For one, that's complete bullshit, and you should stop reading Drudge.

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It's kind of funny though to hear people screaming about the inherent unfairness of the poor administration being asked a question with journalistic intent, perhaps even EGGED ON by an ACTUAL reporter. The nerve of the press.

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I wish I could comment on this but I'm forbidden from criticizing my chain of command

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
Yeah, I'm sure.

For one, that's complete bullshit, and you should stop reading Drudge.

For another, so what?

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the source of the question is irrelevant. the question was posed by a soldier, and rumsfeld responded as he did, to a soldier.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Of course it is, my dear. It is, after all a blog, yes?

As for "so what"? Has my Libertarian/Democrat friend waxed Orwellian-tolerant/Tas News Service-esque on me?

Please, Paint.

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Indeed we will. In the mean time, have a little cheese with your whine, Demboy.

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What's your take, non-response man?

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They just need more sappers.

And TEH A-TEAM!

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Stop picking on the old man, it was early in the morning and he was just collecting his thoughts ... just like Rumsfeld.

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When all those other soldiers cheered after the question was asked, what they were really cheering for was the vast left-wing media apparatus.

Clearly any other position would be Orwellian.

Duh.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs

And the ultimate irony from this is going to be, instead of Rumsfeld losing his job (though I still think he may step down in a year or so), this'll probably spur Bush into being able to milk the country for more money, in the long run (which is not neccessary as far as this issue goes). Watch the administration turn this into a reason to propose a new 87 billion initiative.

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Woot.

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration, facing mounting violence in Iraq and demands for upgraded equipment, is assembling a funding package for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan that could surge beyond earlier estimates to as much as $75 billion to $100 billion, congressional sources and experts said on Thursday.

Administration and congressional officials estimated in October that the funding package would total between $60 billion and $75 billion.

The Army's request alone could top $51 billion, far more than the $35 billion to $40 billion cited by the Army chief of staff in October, congressional sources said.

The Marines are also expected to push for billions of dollars more as the Pentagon increases troop strength for Iraqi elections scheduled for January.

Two congressional sources said the size of the emergency spending bill, which President Bush will send to Congress early next year, could swell to between $75 billion and possibly $100 billion, depending on the level of violence in the coming months. That would include billions of dollars to upgrade equipment and purchase more armored vehicles.

John Pike, a defense analyst with GlobalSecurity.org, said the rate of spending in Iraq, already at more than $1 billion a week, could grow to $1.5 billion or more. "It's going to be a pretty big number," he said.

Administration officials said it was premature to estimate the size of the funding package. One official cautioned that initial estimates by the military services "tend to be high" and are often trimmed back in final negotiations between the Pentagon and the White House. He suggested that the figures were little more than trial balloons.

Officials said the size of the package will also depend on how much of the Pentagon's $25 billion contingency fund is spent. The administration has said that any unused funding would be applied toward next year's needs.

Bush has promised to provide U.S. troops with whatever they need, and said on Thursday that concerns about inadequate equipment for Iraq combat were being addressed.

Meeting with troops in Kuwait on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld heard several complaints, including one from Spc. Thomas Wilson that U.S. forces were forced to dig up scrap metal to protect their vehicles in Iraq because of a shortage of armored ones.

"The process of determining the amount of the (funding) request is still very far from final, but it will be completed in time for Congress to consider and act on it so there is no disruption in support," said Chad Kolton, spokesman for the White House Office of Management and Budget.

In addition to money for military operations in Iraq, the Bush administration's request is expected to include $1 billion to $2 billion for the construction of a U.S. Embassy complex in Iraq and $780 million to crack down on drug production in Afghanistan, congressional sources said.

The request may also include additional funding for the Palestinian Authority, which is organizing elections for January to choose a successor to Yasser Arafat.

Officials said rising fuel costs would add $3 billion or more to next year's price tag. World oil prices have skyrocketed since the start of the year, in part because of the turmoil in Iraq.

White House budget director Joshua Bolten would not discuss the size of the package, but said: "We prefer to do it as late as possible so that we know what our needs are going to be."

Bolten said he did not expect the Defense Department's "funding streams to be constrained at all at any time between now and the release of the budget" in early February.

So far, Congress has approved $120 billion for Iraq and another $60 billion for Afghanistan, according to White House estimates. On top of that, Congress set up the $25 billion contingency fund for the Pentagon, a portion of which has already been spent.

Democratic critics accused Bush and his top advisers of understating the costs of the war and reconstruction.

Before the invasion, then-White House budget director Mitch Daniels predicted Iraq would be "an affordable endeavor," and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz assured Congress: "We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

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lalala

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