Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Still Orygun
Posts: 10442

I didn't know if this belongs in the book forum or the cooking forum, but it's political, so --

quote:

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(p. 131)

The Secret Service and Customs had teamed up in Atlanta to provide some rudimentary air defense against an aircraft flying into the Olympic Stadium. They did so again during the subsequent National Security Special Events and they agreed to create a permanent air defense unit to protect Washington. Unfortunately, those two federal law enforcement agencies were housed in the Treasury Department and its leadership did not want to pay for such a mission or run the liability risks of shooting down the wrong aircraft. Treasury nixed the air defense unit, and my attempts within the White House to overrule them came to naught. The idea of aircraft attacking Washington seemed remote to many people and the risks of shooting down aircraft in a city were thought to be far too high. Moreover, the opponents of our plan argued, the Air Force could always scramble fighter aircraft to protect Washington if there were a problem. On occasions when aircraft were hijacked (and in one case when we erroneously believed a Northwest flight had been seized), the Air Force did intercept the airliners with fighter jets. We succeeded only in getting Secret Service the permission to continue to examine air defense options, including the possibility of placing missile units near the White House. Most people who heard about our efforts to create some air defense system in case terrorists tried to fly aircraft into the Capitol, the White House, or the Pentagon simply thought we were nuts.

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

arrest him

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Still Orygun
Posts: 10442

eh. it's frustrating to read this book and I wanted to share. the litany of bureaucratic turf wars, incompetence (FBI, CIA), media leaks and administrative partisanship (resulting in lack of foresight) is relentless. good read though.

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

arrest Clarke, I'm assuming it's Arthur C.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Still Orygun
Posts: 10442

you are a teabag ninja.

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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: I cant say I buy this completely,
Posts: 2539

I think its interesting to see all of the pressures that existed before 9/11, how they created a specific atmosphere...how OBL and his men exploited the gaps between agencies(knowingly or not). I havent read Clarkes book but my whole impression of 9/11 is that there simply did not exist the sort of 'safety culture' that is needed to prevent certain acts...namely irrational suicide style attacks but certainly many other forms. I know that Clinton had attempted to create a sort of terrorism czar with at best mixed results(Clarke)...the idea just couldnt support itself, there was no demonstrable threat and no real power in the office(no budgetary control). Interagency rivalry/friction/collusion/deflection is also nothing new...I would hope its out of vogue but spheres of interest are difficult to define for federal agencies(especially all the executive ones), again this is a problem that cant be solved until reality bitch slaps us into realization. I also harbor secret thoughts that Clarkes entire being is devoted to denying the fact that he dropped the ball in some way...I understand his dilemma and possibly that he did not have any way to achieve his goals...this is still a failure. I would have fired him too.

It is probably a blessing in disguise that we were attacked with planes in 2001 and not with a nerve gas in 2006.

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 13002

From my observations at Newark airport back in 2002 (and I admit that much might have changed now so correct me if I am wrong) there was most defintely not a "safety culture". I've mentioned it before on the forum but I left something unattended in Newark airport for at least two hours and when I realised I had mislaid it I found it right where I had left it, no one batted an eyelid at it, the police, airport staff and soldiers (they had military in there then) were so obsessed with checking shoes (the "shoe bomber" incident had happened not long before) that what could so easily have contained a pipe bomb was completely ignored.

What struck me back then was a complete misunderstanding of the nature of a terrorist threat. There seemed to be this belief that an attack would be what indigo once described as "mass destruction terrorism". IN other words this flawed thinking that the terrorism being fought was somehow exceptional and different to terrorism that had preceded it. As a result the idea that someone might bring a bomb rolled up in a tube into a airport and then just leave it somewhere was (it seemed to me) completely ignored. I even spoke to one of the policeman when I picked up my belongings once more and commented that had it been Heathrow or Gatwick airports my property would have been removed and destroyed., he simply shrugged and looked at me like I was crazy.

Anyways, I'm repeating the story again because I think it's a good example of what needs to (or needed to) change culturally in America if it was going to live with the terrorist threat.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4691

I can attest to this.

The Navy used to have what they called a "Red Team" which consisted of various wannabe ninjas, ex-SEALs (injuries etc.), masters-at-arms (basically Navy cops) and the like. Their entire job was to infiltrate Navy bases in order to stage crimes and mock terrorist acts in order to train the local security/defense personnel.

They took down the red team during the 1990s drawdown because of costs and because they were thought to be "too harsh" in their methods and assessments. They were costing people their jobs because they would roll right over complacent and incompetent personnel. The Navy's response was "Well, shit, it costs more to hire new personnel," so rather than remediate the problems, they disbanded the Red Team.

Now, every unit has got a vast budget (compared to before, anyhow) for security (or as we call it, "Force Protection") and not a single clue on how to spend it. They refuse to listen to reason or hire experts and instead just spend tons of money making lots of flash and noise and accomplishing very little.

The thing I'm learning about security is that it does not often require draconian measures to be secure...there are some very simple, non-invasive procedures that you can employ. You just have to be REALLY strict and good at implementing them (like doing background checks and the like).

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: ........
Posts: 15003

They've got these new automatic passport readers now, I managed to get into the departure lounge in Dublin without my passport getting checked. (ticket bought be my travelling mate)

Myself, I thought it was a -1 for security concerns.

We were then delayed for a while because someone with an "not valid" passport had boarded the plane, luggage needed to be removed.

While waiting in the departure lounge all of a sudden the mobile phone got a "Welcome to Ireland" text message.

There's a lot of morons in this world with the ability to push buttons unfortunately.

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