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Paint CHiPs
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War in Iraq: 100 Billion Dollars a Year, at Least 120,000 Troops there Through 2007

Today's NYT and WaPo:

quote:

The U.S. Army expects to keep its troop strength in Iraq at the current level of about 120,000 for at least two more years, according to the Army's top operations officer.

While allowing for the possibility that the levels could decrease or increase depending on security conditions and other factors, Lt. Gen. James J. Lovelace Jr. told reporters yesterday that the assumption of little change through 2006 represents "the most probable case."

Recent disclosures that the Pentagon plans to beef up training of Iraqi security forces and press them into action more quickly has fueled speculation that the Bush administration could be preparing to reduce the number of U.S. troops significantly this year. As more Iraqi troops join the fight, the thinking goes, U.S. troops could begin to withdraw.

But Lovelace's remarks indicated that the Army is not yet counting on any such reduction. Indeed, the general said, the Army expects to continue rotating active-duty units in and out of Iraq in year-long deployments and is looking for ways to dip even deeper into reserve forces -- even as leaders of the reserves have warned that the Pentagon could be running out of such units.

"We're making the assumption that the level of effort is going to continue," Lovelace said.

In a related development, Senate and House aides said yesterday that the White House will announce today plans to request an additional $80 billion to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That would come on top of $25 billion already appropriated for the fiscal year that began Oct. 1. White House budget spokesman Chad Kolton declined to comment.

White House budget director Joshua B. Bolten is to describe the package to lawmakers today, but the budget request will come later, the aides said. Administration officials have said privately for several weeks that they will seek the additional funding, the result of continuing high costs incurred battling an unexpectedly strong insurgency in Iraq.

Lovelace, who assumed his post of deputy chief of staff for operations in October, spoke to a small group of Pentagon reporters in what had been billed as an informal "meet and greet" session. The conversation quickly focused on the Army's planning for Iraq.

The number of U.S. Army and other forces in Iraq rose to 150,000 last month in what Pentagon officials described as an effort to bolster security ahead of Iraqi elections this weekend.


For those of us keeping score at home.

Rumsfeld, in Senate hearing prior to the war:

quote:
"It'll be a bargain war, only $25 Billion, so cheap it will be self financing"


Or, (1/19/03):

quote:

Q: Mr. Secretary, on Iraq, how much money do you think the Department of Defense would need to pay for a war with Iraq?

Rumsfeld: Well, the Office of Management and Budget, has come up come up with a number that's something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question. I think the way to put it into perspective is that the estimates as to what September 11th cost the United States of America ranges high up into the hundreds of billions of dollars....


Or, the absolute high end of pre-war estimates from the administration (3/23/03):

quote:
Bush team sets war cost at $80 billion; Estimate comes after Congress has OKd budget

President Bush plans to tell congressional leaders on Monday that the war in Iraq will cost about $80 billion, administration officials said, three days after both chambers of Congress passed budget plans and authorized tax cuts without a war-cost estimate from the administration.


If spending stops at the end of 2006 and doesn't further increase, that'll be a bill of ballpark 600 billion dollars, though it's hard to tell for sure the way accounting is done/not done (that's surely the low end). Note, none of that is factored into deficit predictions (but for some reason, the social security surplus' are).

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Old Post 01-25-2005 06:44 AM
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Aydin
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How can 60,000,000 people be so dumb?

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Old Post 01-25-2005 02:58 PM
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absolut
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Or you could donate $100,00
Saves the philosphical bullshit
Just helps people

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Old Post 01-25-2005 03:03 PM
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Smug Git
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It's pretty extraordinary, for so much incompetence to be rewarded. But it has been. Americans must just love paying tax.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:26 AM
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CHiPsJr
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Well, as has been pointed out, we're not actually paying taxes to finance this. That'll be somebody else's job down the line.

I don't know how a more competent post-war strategy, which would surely have involved MORE troops on the ground, would have been cheaper. Unless the implication is that Bush could have gotten the UN or more individual nations to share the burden, which I'm not sure I buy.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:32 AM
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Smug Git
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Hard to see how it wouldn't have been, even to date, given that the whole point of it would have been to prevent an expensive runaway insurgency in 'difficult' areas. The whole point of it being more competent would have reduced costs. Of course, what that policy should have been is rather clearer now, I guess, that it would have been then, even had the administration invested much effort in post-war planning. Whether or not they would have hit on the proper strategy we'll never know, because they weren't even seriously thinking about it (Jay Garner only got a staff in January 2003, I believe).

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:35 AM
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Paint CHiPs
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Well, with stuff like not disbanding the Iraqi military and doing things right the first time, presumably the cost and length of time fixing problems we largely created ourselves would be greatly less. But, I didn't mean to imply that the cheaper the better, or that we SHOULDN'T spend this money and commit these troops at this point in the game, now that we're effectively saddled with it. Just trying to keep a fair reckoning.

edit: Smug beat me to it.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:37 AM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Well, as has been pointed out, we're not actually paying taxes to finance this. That'll be somebody else's job down the line.



You're not too old to pay the tax on this, surely? Although I guess that the brunt (if this goes on for a fair while) may be borne by people too young to vote at the moment. Maybe they should arm themselves and thank all the Bush voters personally*.

*Then Michael Moore could make 'Bowling for Karbala'.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:38 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
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Or maybe they should get jobs a pay for the security our generation may have achieved for them? God, for someone so learned in history, you are sure in a hurry to write it ahead of time.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 05:36 AM
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3MTA3
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Or maybe they should get jobs a pay for the security our generation may have achieved for them? God, for someone so learned in history, you are sure in a hurry to write it ahead of time.
I was going to make a comment along the same lines but it wouldnt have sounded so good!

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Old Post 01-26-2005 05:48 AM
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Thimbles worth of opinion
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quote:

What security? Or maybe they should get jobs a pay for the security our generation may have achieved for them?



If security means so fucking much to your generation then why doesn't your generation pay for it?

Cause taxes mean the terrists win. 4 more years!

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Old Post 01-26-2005 07:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Or maybe they should get jobs a pay for the security our generation may have achieved for them? God, for someone so learned in history, you are sure in a hurry to write it ahead of time.

There you go again with the elderly martyrs.
That's pathetic bordering on conservative.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 01:06 PM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Or maybe they should get jobs a pay for the security our generation may have achieved for them? God, for someone so learned in history, you are sure in a hurry to write it ahead of time.


Hah, right. The point is that it could have been done cheaper so even if it works (an open question) the bill is too high. But frankly, the security situation wasn't that bad anyhow; 3000-odd people died in 11/9 (I think about 2500 were Americans) and that is all (which isn't that much). Whether or not an invasion of Iraq even serves future security. And what is your experience of government when they say it'll cost X then it turns out that it will cost 20+ times as much? Will it even end there? Why on earth would you trust them again?

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Old Post 01-26-2005 02:24 PM
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Nutrimentia
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If you had a $1000 a day budget, 1 million bucks would last about 3 years.

If you had a $1000 a day budget, 1 billion bucks would last about 3000 years.

If you had a $1000 a day budget, 80 billion bucks would about 240,000 years.

That's right. 80 billion dollars would last for a quarter million years at $1000/ day.

I'll let you do the math on 600 billion dollars.[spoiler]

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:01 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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In related news:

quote:

Bush Aides Say Budget Deficit Will Rise Again

WASHINGTON, Jan. 25 - The White House announced on Tuesday that the federal budget deficit was expected to rise this year to $427 billion, a figure that includes a new request from President Bush to help pay for the war in Iraq.

The White House's announcement makes it the fourth straight year in which the budget deficit was expected to grow; as recently as last July the administration had predicted that the deficit, which was $412 billion last year, would fall this year to $331 billion.

The deficit figure announced by the White House, which includes part of an additional $80 billion that Mr. Bush requested mostly for Iraq, was higher than the $368 billion estimate announced earlier in the day by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, though that figure did not include supplemental costs for the war. The deficit estimates are roughly consistent with each other with the inclusion of those costs, which cover bombs, bullets, armor for vehicles used in Iraq, and the replacement of tanks and Humvees blown up by insurgent forces.

Neither estimate includes the cost of privatizing part of the Social Security program, the leading element of Mr. Bush's domestic agenda. Estimates of the cost of creating those accounts range from $1 trillion to $2 trillion over the next two decades.

The Congressional Budget Office noted that if Mr. Bush wins Congressional approval to make his tax cuts permanent, a top priority for the administration, the deficit would grow by $2 trillion over the next 10 years. If war costs in Iraq and Afghanistan taper off gradually, the agency estimated that price tag over the next 10 years could total nearly $600 billion.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:45 PM
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Smug Git
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Heh, 'as recently as last July the administration had predicted...'.

A good thing that deficits don't matter, eh? You can't put a price on re-election, I suppose. Retards.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 03:47 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Hah, right. The point is that it could have been done cheaper so even if it works (an open question) the bill is too high. But frankly, the security situation wasn't that bad anyhow; 3000-odd people died in 11/9 (I think about 2500 were Americans) and that is all (which isn't that much). Whether or not an invasion of Iraq even serves future security. And what is your experience of government when they say it'll cost X then it turns out that it will cost 20+ times as much?


Business as usual?

quote:

Will it even end there? Why on earth would you trust them again?



Only because, believe it or not, I trust others less.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 07:24 PM
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Smug Git
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But it still says 'incompetence is OK'. Much as Clinton's walk on perjury said that 'breaking the law as president is OK' (and Reagan is a somewhat similar example). If you settle for what you have, that's the best you'll ever get.

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Old Post 01-26-2005 07:30 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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Signs are starting to come in that Bush may be more sane than we thought. Parts of his Homeland Security budget got out. He's starting to sneak in tax increases.

quote:

Bush's plan calls for boosting the security fee from $2.50 to $5.50 for a one-way airline ticket and from a maximum of $5 to $8 for multiple legs. The hikes are expected to generate $1.5 billion.


.. Granted, a drop in the bucket, but at least it demonstrates maybe some kind of vestigal understanding of economics, long thought absent, that being you have to have revenue mechanisms for increases in spending.

Of course, people were terrified Kerry would do something like this.

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Old Post 01-28-2005 06:37 PM
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Mugtoe
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I wasn't. I just didn't like or trust the guy any more than I do Bush.

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Old Post 01-28-2005 06:50 PM
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Mugtoe
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havin posted that, I dunno if any a that was directed at me nor if my response was required. my bad for lack of restraint of pen and tongue.

no wake'n bake today

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Old Post 01-28-2005 06:54 PM
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Smug Git
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It's either raise taxes or cut spending. I prefer the latter, but if he wants to spend (and he does), he's going to have to take more money from Americans.

It'll take a deal more than this to balance the books, though.

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Old Post 01-28-2005 07:24 PM
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