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memdink
spasm of violence

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Virginia, the 12th state to ratify the gay marriage ban

Va. House Passes Gay Marriage Ban

By Bob Lewis
Associated Press
Tuesday, February 8, 2005; 3:46 PM

RICHMOND -- The House of Delegates passed a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage Tuesday, despite a warning from the state's first openly gay legislator that the measure will one day shame the state as slavery and racial segregation laws did.

The House voted 78-18 to complete passage of a resolution similar to one the Senate easily passed on Monday.

"Today is one of those moments for which we shall one day be ashamed," said Del. Adam P. Ebbin, D-Alexandria, elected in 2003 by voters who knew he was gay. "I cannot stand by as this body continues to use gays and lesbians as scapegoats."

Supporters of the amendment contend it is vital to preserving marriage applying uniquely to one woman and one man and warding off court rulings such as one in Massachusetts which make gay marriage legal.

"If we do not act today, marriage as we know it will be redefined by the judicial process," said Del. Kathy J. Byron, R-Campbell County.

The House rejected an amendment by Del. James M. Scott, D-Fairfax County, that would have left the ban against gay marriage intact but eliminate provisions that would also prohibit civil unions or contractual agreements between two people of the same sex that approximate the privileges of marriage.

The House resolution differs slightly from the version passed on a 30-10 vote in the Senate, so negotiators from the House and Senate will have to reconcile the differences.

The lopsided House vote on the most contentious moral issue of the session came nearly 10 months before all 100 House seats are up for election. It also puts Virginia on track to follow 11 states where voters last year ratified gay marriage bans to their constitutions.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 09:38 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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In other news, New York City is paving the way.

Fuck the red states.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 09:47 PM
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Aydin
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If we're lucky, they'll try to secede in a few years.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 09:49 PM
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mmmtravis
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seriously, how are us blue staters NOT supposed to surmise that at least the majority of the fuckers in these states are inbred fucking hicks, not worthy of being hired at walmart, let alone in a position to force their "family values" on me?

i dont know why i care. not only could i not get a dude to marry me if i wanted to, but im not gay... but it still pisses me off. fucking faggoty ass fucktards. i hope all the cowardly morons who voted for this are sodomized to death by black men.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 09:58 PM
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buddha's penis
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i agree with travo. the more this is talked about the more i realize that gay marriage shouldn't be an issue at all, but the fact that we have so many people in north america that oppose it should be. fuck those people.
to give background, while something like 70% of canadians "support the traditional definition of marriage" both our provincial and federal governments (though the federal bill may fail, i'm not sure what's happening there) and the courts don't give a shit about the opinions of backwards assholes and insist on upholding their (correct) interpretation of the constitution.

right now most provinces allow gay marriage. god bless.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 10:08 PM
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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

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quote:
Originally posted by buddha's penis

to give background, while something like 70% of canadians "support the traditional definition of marriage" both our provincial and federal governments (though the federal bill may fail, i'm not sure what's happening there) and the courts don't give a shit about the opinions of backwards assholes and insist on upholding their (correct) interpretation of the constitution.

right now most provinces allow gay marriage. god bless.


quote:

The vote is too close to call. The Globe and Mail recently surveyed Members of Parliament. 139 MPs said they would vote in favour of legislation (to legalize gay marriage) and 118 MPs said they would vote against the legislation, while 49 are undecided or would not state a position. To pass into law, the bill needs the support of 154 MPs.

Powerful U.S. religious groups are sending money and support to allies in Canada to fight same-sex marriage.

Patrick Korten, vice-president of communications for the Knights of Columbus head office in New Haven, Conn., said no limit has been set on the help his organization is prepared to offer.

"Whatever it takes," he said. "The family is too important."

Mr. Korten said the U.S. headquarters of the Catholic men's group paid $80,782 to print two million postcards being distributed in Catholic churches across Canada.

"It has been extremely enthusiastically received in Catholic parishes all over Canada. As a matter of fact we may have to print some more -- there was a great deal of interest in it. It offers a quick, simple but effective way for Catholics ... to make their feelings about the same-sex marriage bill known to their MPs."

Another opponent of same-sex marriage, Focus on the Family, is also sending support and services worth hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to its Canadian affiliate.


Good source for this here.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 10:29 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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Also, it is no longer constitutionaly accurate to say "Virginia is for lovers". They're going to have to rethink the ad campaign. Suggestions?

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Old Post 02-08-2005 10:31 PM
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buddha's penis
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"Powerful U.S. religious groups are sending money and support to allies in Canada to fight same-sex marriage."

again, fuck those people.

all of my potential "virginia is" slogans are pretty blunt and offensive. i think maybe we should keep the slogan but insist on the traditional definition of "lover".

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Old Post 02-08-2005 10:41 PM
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lucidnightmare
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Religious people have just as much a right to try to shape policy according to their convictions as Goerge Soros and the ACLU does, and just as much right to "impose " their values as you do yours .

quote:
seriously, how are us blue staters NOT supposed to surmise that at least the majority of the fuckers in these states are inbred fucking hicks, not worthy of being hired at walmart, let alone in a position to force their "family values" on me?


I would call you a bigot , but we don't want victim status , that is for people on the left .

I can only speek for myself as a proud red stater ,but I would say we don't give a rats ass what you surmise, any more we do the international community , as we showed you during the election .

How are us red staters not to suppose that the majority of you fuckers aren't a bunch of bleeding heart limp wristed white liberals who are more concerned with pleasing a vocal minority, than you are the possible effects on a foundation of this society .I don't know that gay marrige is bad for our culture , but others think that it is , and they have the right to , that doesn't make them rednecks you arrogant SOBS .

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Old Post 02-08-2005 11:23 PM
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buddha's penis
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quote:
Originally posted by lucidnightmare
Religious people have just as much a right to try to shape policy according to their convictions as Goerge Soros and the ACLU does, and just as much right to "impose " their values as you do yours .


allowing gay marriage in no way imposes anything on anybody (except those who will be FORCED to perform the ceremony). goddamnit.
and no, they don't. when my convictions are found to be unconstitutional and discriminatory, you may have a point.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 11:33 PM
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loser
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.


Quote


"I can only speek for myself as a proud red stater"

You got sidewalks in Charlotte yet?
That'd be something to be proud of.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 11:40 PM
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Talarohk
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BP raises a good point. How, exactly, does permitting gay marriage "force" views on anyone? I have always wondered this--how allowing one set of people to get married cheapens other existing marriages--but haven't yet heard a good explanation. (I know this is not deep or groundbreaking)

If anyone who holds such a view would like to explain it, I will promise to listen with an open mind and take seriously what he or she says.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 11:45 PM
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lucidnightmare
Max Power

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quote:
Originally posted by loser
.


Quote


"I can only speek for myself as a proud red stater"

You got sidewalks in Charlotte yet?
That'd be something to be proud of.


Yes , and ours don't have crack heads and bums sleeping on them , maybe Detroit could send us some.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 11:48 PM
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lucidnightmare
Max Power

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quote:
Originally posted by Talarohk
BP raises a good point. How, exactly, does permitting gay marriage "force" views on anyone? I have always wondered this--how allowing one set of people to get married cheapens other existing marriages--but haven't yet heard a good explanation. (I know this is not deep or groundbreaking)

If anyone who holds such a view would like to explain it, I will promise to listen with an open mind and take seriously what he or she says.


Because something is being done in the name of the people of that state, that they because of deeply held convictions believe is wrong , not unlike a war is to some liberals. Most Orthodox traditions around the world , even Buddhism in some cases do not hold homosexuality in high regaurd. Right or wrong that idea has a lot of history, it isn't just a bunch of bigots.

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Old Post 02-08-2005 11:56 PM
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mmmtravis
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yes, not unlike a war to us liberals lucid. because gays getting married affects right wing conservative chrisitians EXACTLY the same as the nation spending hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of life exerting force upon the world affects liberals. now i can see your point, sorry for grouping you in with those dumbass southerners.

you obviously have the right to feel whatever you want. if you think the word "evolution" should be taken off of network tv and limited to expanded cable and HBO programs, you have every right to petition the FCC or exert your influence. if you think black people should be slaves, you have the right to start a movement and attempt to repeal certain amendments in the constitution to make that happen. of course you have the right to try and shape society in whatever manner you see fit. if you think fags shouldnt marry, that somehow it infringes upon you, you have the right to attempt to make it illegal. don't fucking expect those of us rational enough to realize how idiotic and illogical these people are to stand here idly while a large bloc of ignorant and bigoted religious fundamentalists attempt to shape policy in (what the sane consider to be) an ill-advised fashion.

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Old Post 02-09-2005 12:05 AM
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lucidnightmare
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It is the same in that it is something the state does in the name of the people.

I believe in evolution BTW.

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Old Post 02-09-2005 12:08 AM
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lucidnightmare
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quote:
sorry for grouping you in with those dumbass southerners


Keep reaching out to us , i'm sure we will come around .

Just admit that your opinion is just an opinion, rather than that you and those like you are being rational , and people who are on the other side of these issues are just stupid or hateful.

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Old Post 02-09-2005 12:13 AM
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Talarohk
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quote:
Originally posted by lucidnightmare
Because something is being done in the name of the people of that state, that they because of deeply held convictions believe is wrong , not unlike a war is to some liberals. Most Orthodox traditions around the world , even Buddhism in some cases do not hold homosexuality in high regaurd. Right or wrong that idea has a lot of history, it isn't just a bunch of bigots.
Thanks for a reply, lucid. I have two questions which immediately come to mind:
1. How is marriage done in anyone's name but those being married? Are you referring to the legal benefits carried by it--that folks who work in a hospital, say, would be forced to allow a person's same-sex spouse visitation rights, even though they disagree with that status as spouse?

2. Even if we grant that gay marriage forces the people of a state to endorse a wedding of which they disapprove, why is that a good reason to not allow it? As you point out, plenty of people disapprove of war, yet our tax money is used to support it. By that reasoning, we shouldn't allow war either.

I think that, in order for an argument against gay marriage on the grounds that it has a negative impact on people who think homosexuality is icky to be sufficient reason to deny homosexuals the right to marry, one would have to show the harm pretty clearly. Otherwise, a state could deny the right to marry to any group it liked, on the basis that a majority didn't like those people.

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Old Post 02-09-2005 12:14 AM
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mmmtravis
T-Raz w/ the freaky freak

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quote:
Originally posted by lucidnightmare
Just admit that your opinion is just an opinion, rather than that you and those like you are being rational , and people who are on the other side of these issues are just stupid or hateful.
I freely admit to losing my temper in this thread, possibly even to an irrational degree. I'm enraged because evidence suggests that a great majority of this country is completely satisified with arriving at illogical conclusions, and much of the legislation we pass and condone supports that. This, however, is my own problem with the way the world works, I suppose

So I apologize, let us return to a more civil conversation. I don't believe the government should prohibit me from doing something without proper justification. If I were gay, I would certainly hope your reasons for not allowing me to marry someone of the same sex would be consideribly less vague than "the majority doesn't think it should be allowed; the majority makes the rules." And, if you are claiming that same sex marriage "erodes family values," I would also hope you had some rather persuasive data to support your statement. Data that somehow suggests, beyond any reason of a doubt, that my same sex marriage is directly weakening your marriage, or your family, or our society. I simply don't think any reasonable interpretation of data would validate that claim.

I don't think you're an idiot, lucidnightmare. I've attacked your homeland, so I've naturally put you in a defensive position. If I had to guess, I'd say you were supporting the people's right to make this decision, and not the decision itself. But can you humor Tal and me (and a great number of other people here), just for a moment, and explain to us exactly how a reasonable person comes to the conclusion that same sex marriages need to be illegal?

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Old Post 02-09-2005 01:36 AM
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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
Also, it is no longer constitutionaly accurate to say "Virginia is for lovers". They're going to have to rethink the ad campaign. Suggestions?


Virginia is for reactionary cretins.

Virginia welcomes careful morons.

Virginia: We'll only ignore your homosekshual antics if we send you to prison.

Virginia: smoke anything but cocks.

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Trenchant_Troll
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Fag.

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Old Post 02-09-2005 01:58 AM
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