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SignorMonsanto
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Registered: Feb 2005
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Politics Entertainment industry gives outlook on war?

I've noticed that as the newsmedia's accounts of the war in Iraq and the war on terror get more and more similar to one another there has been an outpouring of stories from the fictional media (pop culture, entertainment industry, whatever you want to call it) about current events. It's as if there is no outlet for varying points of view in the news, so books, movies and video games are providing that expression. I wonder what has more of an effect on people's views, the fiction or the real stuff. What do you think?

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Old Post 02-10-2005 04:50 PM
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CHiPsJr
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40% of the public still believes in the WMD. Which suggests that what REALLY influences the public isn't the fiction OR the news, but the fictional news.

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Old Post 02-10-2005 04:53 PM
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lucidnightmare
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That is because 40% of the public doesn't watch the news or care , not because the news is telling them lies.

The" corporate news" line is also a leftist talking point these days , the news isn't leaning their way enough anymore.

http://www.opednews.com/hersh_071304_press_betrayal.htm

http://www.fair.org/extra/9711/gmg.html

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Old Post 02-10-2005 07:20 PM
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SocialParasite
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Whereas "journalists for hire" is okey-dokey.

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Old Post 02-10-2005 07:43 PM
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lucidnightmare
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Did you think those people were journalists?

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Old Post 02-10-2005 08:08 PM
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Smug Git
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They certainly appeared to think that they themselves were journalists. And, perhaps more importantly, they rather forgot to mention their immediate financial interest in peddling particular views.

But, to be fair, even the right-wing journalists pretty much condemned the practice of bribing various media elements to push certain points of view.

And what was up with giving a Whitehouse press pass to a shill put there to ask nice questions? Jesus wept. You don't have to hate Bush to hate that.

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Old Post 02-10-2005 08:17 PM
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SimpleSimon
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Smug, get over it. Every single white house press corps member is a shill for someone's interest.

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Old Post 02-10-2005 08:40 PM
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Smug Git
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On the plus side, Gannon has resigned since he was outed.

Whitehouse press conferences are a crock, yes; seeing them all stand up and maybe even applaud when the president enters the room is pretty disturbing. Even so, this, basically, non-journalist being given a Whitehouse press pass was pretty weird. It isn't how to fight perceived bias, not if intellectual honesty and commitment to a free press are values held dear, at any rate.

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Old Post 02-10-2005 09:03 PM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
... It isn't how to fight perceived bias, not if intellectual honesty and commitment to a free press are values held dear, at any rate.


They are not. Nor, in my lifetime, have they ever been given more than lip service by any occupant of the White House.

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Old Post 02-10-2005 09:23 PM
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3MTA3
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I hate it when I agree with Simon. Anyways, the president doesnt have to do press conferences...he only does them to serve his own interests, they are for him more than anyone. I dont like that theres plants but were going to hear what the president wants us to no matter...

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Old Post 02-10-2005 11:39 PM
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philjit
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I spy apathy.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 06:54 AM
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Thimbles worth of opinion
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quote:

I hate it when I agree with Simon. Anyways, the president doesnt have to do press conferences...he only does them to serve his own interests



And Bush has done the least press conferences of any president. Because presidents being accountable to the press, presidents being accountable to the people, those are quaint notions.
September 11 changed all of that.
We have such an understanding public.
quote:

I dont like that theres plants but were going to hear what the president wants us to no matter...



What I really like is when those plant journalists make shit up in their questions and then ask for conclusions based on their shit.
quote:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...air/index1.html
It's likely Talon and Gannon would have remained obscure had the swaggering reporter not popped his now famous question to Bush. The details surrounding the Jan. 26 press room incident are telling, as they highlight the elasticity Gannon and other partisan advocates often use in their "reporting." Gannon asked Bush, "Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak picture of the U.S. economy." He continued, "[Minority Leader] Harry Reid was talking about soup lines, and Hillary Clinton was talking about the economy being on the verge of collapse. Yet, in the same breath, they say that Social Security is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work -- you said you're going to reach out to these people -- how are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?"

Reid never made any such comment about soup lines.

That afternoon conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh crowed that Gannon's question was "a repeat, a rehash, of a precise point I made on this program yesterday." However, Limbaugh conceded that Reid had "never actually said 'soup lines.'" That was simply Limbaugh's exaggerated characterization of Reid's concerns. Gannon either heard that phrase on Limbaugh's show or read it in Limbaugh's online column and then inserted it into his loaded question to Bush. On Feb. 2, with Gannon under fire for his lack of journalistic ethics, Limbaugh suddenly flip-flopped and told listeners that Gannon's question about Reid and soup lines "was an accurate recitation of what the Senate Democrat leaders had said." Then, in a Feb. 7 article in the Washington Post, Gannon finally conceded the quote was made up, but suggested he had nothing to apologize for.



Fox News deserves credit for pioneering the technique in their interview style, but geez... Posing as an independant journalist at a presidential press gathering to recite a loaded question based on manfuctured info?

It's like having a birthday party with all your friends, except all your friends happen to be close family members, and showing everybody pictures your party to prove how popular you are.

It speaks volumes about the amount of insecurity, if not immaturity, within the Administration right now.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 04:48 PM
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SignorMonsanto
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quote:
Originally posted by lucidnightmare
That is because 40% of the public doesn't watch the news or care , not because the news is telling them lies.



And yet these people still claim to know just as much about world events as the people who actually follow them. That's where fictional media comes in - they have to be getting their ideas from somewhere.

Even I find things coming out of my mouth that I realize are from pop culture. I think it's interesting when world politics become an issue chewed on by pop culture, because then pop culture turns around and affects public opinion, which then affects world politics.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 05:02 PM
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Thimbles worth of opinion
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Pop culture is sooo five minutes ago.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 05:13 PM
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Thimbles worth of opinion
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If you want a systematic analysis of media in the US watch this.

quote:

http://www.informationclearinghouse...article6435.htm
The Myth of the Liberal Media
The Propaganda Model of News
Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky demolish one of the central tenets of our political culture, the idea of the "liberal media." Instead, utilizing a systematic model based on massive empirical research, they reveal the manner in which the news media are so subordinated to corporate and conservative interests that their function can only be described as that of "elite propaganda."



And if you want to say "Augh, Noam Chomsky? He's anti-american." watch the video and make your judgement based on the evidence.

The "social security" analysis, the "health care" analysis, the "war vs social budget", and the "buisness vs labour" coverage are all bang on. Give it a shot, even if you don't agree with the perspective of the commentators. If I can watch "Fareignhype"... well... this is better than fareignhype.

PS. the show was made in 1997 and it's conclusions still ring true. This implies the systemic model given as in force today as it was then, and very possibly more so.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 06:40 PM
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SimpleSimon
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Like I said, "news reporters" are all shills for somebody.

Remember the golden rule.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 06:56 PM
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Smug Git
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Most of the time, they aren't shills for the party of the current Whitehouse. Although apparently Jefferson had himself a tame journalist who he'd have attack Hamilton at every opportunity.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 07:29 PM
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Smug Git
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Mind you, I heard that piece of information at spf. Even the 'it's true if it's on the internerd' rule is sometimes broken by spf.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 07:30 PM
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3MTA3
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Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by Thimbles worth of opinion
And Bush has done the least press conferences of any president. Because presidents being accountable to the press, presidents being accountable to the people, those are quaint notions.
September 11 changed all of that.
We have such an understanding public.

The president is not accountable to the press. The 4th estate is not a branch of government...they are not the people, as you went on to say. Nice logic. He is accountable to the people still. There is no way you cold argue against this...show me anything that says the President of the US is not accountable to the citizenry. One. I fucking dare you. Oh, and I will surely counter any claims you make so dont go getting all excited when you think youve thought up one.
quote:
What I really like is when those plant journalists make shit up in their questions and then ask for conclusions based on their shit.

Fox News deserves credit for pioneering the technique in their interview style, but geez... Posing as an independant journalist at a presidential press gathering to recite a loaded question based on manfuctured info?

It's like having a birthday party with all your friends, except all your friends happen to be close family members, and showing everybody pictures your party to prove how popular you are.

It speaks volumes about the amount of insecurity, if not immaturity, within the Administration right now.

I didnt see this same amount of vitrol when ole Dan Rather had his episode...so like, whatever...keep picking your battles or at least keep being selective about when something like this is sufficiently illustrative of a groups phsychiatric profile to start diagnosing them...

Look, in the end I do think it comes down to molding the stupid populace to do what it should...I dont have a very positive conception of humans as a species and Im fine with pretty high levels of manipulation as a political tactic. I mean, you are too but you would never admit it...all political manipulation prior to this episode and your failure to draw the line way back there shows me that you are. But of course this all the sudden crosses the line...you had made careful consideration of this contingency beforehand and thus when this circumstance arose you didnt react from the gut...no, you simply referred to your previous reason, knowing that it must stop here...that it has just now gone too far...and so on...

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Old Post 02-11-2005 08:34 PM
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SimpleSimon
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Look, people. Bushie-baby's antics are nothing new. Look into the history of journalism in this nation (and any other) and you will find that any national media is a kept bunch of whores. Its just a matter of who the keepers are.

And yes, Jefferson was known for planted stories and captive correspondents. So was Andrew Jackson. So was Lincoln (his suppression brought whole new meaning to the term "captive press"). So was Grant, and McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt made it into high art, Wilson did it, FDR was an absolute master of press manipulation - the list is exhaustive.

Look at the Lyndon Johnson White House sometime. Hell, look at the Clinton White House.

And (dammit) 3mta3 is correct - the president is not obligated to speak to the press about a damned thing. Anytime he does, it is for the purpose of manipulation; it always has been and always will be. I mean, get real here, his whole purpose for existence is manipulation. It is what the job exists for.

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Old Post 02-11-2005 08:48 PM
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Thimbles worth of opinion
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The setup

Students have appallingly weak grasp of free speech
http://www.suntimes.com/output/othe...-edt-ref04.html
February 4, 2005

BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB

A disturbing study released this week by the Knight Foundation of more than 100,000 students and 8,000 teachers and more than 500 administrators at 544 public and private high schools reveals a high level of misunderstanding of their First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech and the press. If an informed electorate is one of the keys to a healthy democracy, America's schools are clearly failing their students and the nation.

Almost three out of four students said they took the First Amendment for granted or didn't have any particular opinion about it. Their general indifference and misunderstanding took tangible form in the belief of three out of four students that flag-burning was illegal and almost half believed the government had the right to censor the Internet. Once the First Amendment was read to them, one third of the students felt it went "too far" in granting free speech and one half thought that the government should have the right to approve news stories.

How did one half of American high school students become perfectly comfortable with government censorship of media? After all, the survey found that while 83 percent of the students believed that unpopular views should be expressed, 97 percent of their teachers and 99 percent of school principals understood that they should. As Hodding Carter III, the head of the Knight Foundation, points out, "The administrators from the previous generation are clearly better educated than the kids in the schools they are running."

But if the administrators know better, what are they actually doing about the problem? Some statistics from the study show nothing positive. One-fifth of the schools covered have no student publications at all, and 40 percent of those have eliminated them in the past five years. And the study shows a high correlation between the presence of student publications and student understanding of the First Amendment.

Mark Goodman is the executive director of the Student Press Law Center. His organization receives calls for advice and assistance from student publications under pressure from principals and administrators. In 1985, the Student Press Law Center received only 371 inquiries from student publishers and their faculty advisers nationwide. In 2003 these inquiries had spiraled up by almost a factor of 10, to 2,796.

According to Goodman one of the problems is that "today's administrators are more corporate CEOs managing huge budgets than educators." What is particularly troubling is that school administrators in the last five years are not only interfering with student publications more and more frequently, they are increasingly asking for prior approval of their content.

At the high school level covered by the Knight survey, courageous teachers who served as publication advisers have lost their jobs for resisting pressure from school administrators. Randy Swikle, a director of the Illinois Press Association Foundation who taught journalism for 36 years in the Johnsburg School District and served as a publication adviser, says, "Administrators preach democracy and practice hypocrisy. No wonder the kids get cynical."

The news gets worse at the collegiate level. Greg Lukianoff of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education says, "At colleges, free speech is increasingly regarded as a nuisance to be granted only grudgingly, and college administrations use legal excuses to suppress opinions." While teachers bear the worst consequences at the high school level, students are heavily penalized at college. They are stigmatized, expelled, subjected to mandatory psychological counseling or forced to take "re-education" courses, with very little legal recourse.

Until recently, the legal excuse for this kind of thought policing was college administration references to conditions laid down by the Office of Civil Rights in the U.S. Department of Education. But in July 2003, a letter of clarification was issued by that office which removes this excuse. Nonetheless, Lukianoff feels that "in the past year, I have seen the worst incidents in my career."

There have been hundreds of incidents of the theft and destruction of college newspapers by some groups, on campus and off, who feel they are expressing their freedom of speech by suppressing access to speech with which they disagree in the paper. Even the mayor of Berkeley, Calif., felt free to confiscate copies of a student newspaper that opposed his election. And less than a dozen have yet been arrested or even investigated and disciplined by any college administration to date.

What to do? This week, Margaret Spellings was sworn in to office "to protect and defend the Constitution" as the new secretary of education. The Department of Education's budget of more than $53 billion actually serves as a huge transfer bank of tens of billions of dollars going to all levels of education, including student loans. A Department of Education review with a possible delay of funding of educational institutions neglecting their responsibilities under the First Amendment could concentrate the minds of educational administrators wonderfully.

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