Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Varies
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This message is for bible literalists

In the random flood of electrical connections that I call my brain, I got to thinking about a parody of the creation story I once wrote an English class as an undergrad. I've never understood how anyone can take that story to be the literal truth, so I have a couple of questions to pose to those of you out there who do take the bible to be the literal truth:

1) If God only made Adam and Eve, how did they go on to populate the world? It seems to me that even if they did copulate 17 times a day, inbreeding depression would have gotten to them and made all their children retarded and potentially unable to reduce. Yes, inbreeding is a genetic phenomenon whereby mating with close relatives causes previously 'hidden' deleterious traits to come forth and be physically expressed.

2) Even though we only hear about Cain and Able in the creation story (inbreeding again--they'd have to be banging their mother if any more people were to be created), I suppose Adam and Eve could have had more children. However, when Cain got kicked out of the Garden, we later hear about his 'people'. Where did they come from?

3) Finally, in the flood story, God wiped out everyone but Noah and his family. Looks like everyone is going to have to get on Mom again in order to re-populate the world. That really should have choked up the gene pool.

Why are there over 6 billion people on this planet now if that story is true?

Disclaimer: If I got any part of the creation story incorrect, I do not apologize. I do not profess to be a bible scholar, and have not, in fact, read the bible in over 15 years. I suppose I will not be considered a 'tolerant' person after posting this message, but that's okay.

I'll say it for you:

Man, what an asshole.

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"Please pardon my momentary display of extreme dissatisfaction".--Unknown

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Registered: Aug 2000
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NIBIRU
http://xfacts.com/x.htm

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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Robert Heinlein

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 15130

Cool link TEFL, interesting reading there.

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Behold! The Power of Cheese!
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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
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quote:

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Originally posted by Abobo:

1) God only made Adam and Eve, how did they go on to populate the... inbreeding...

the mysterious "Lillith" phenom, Adam's first wife. you have to look into the really old scriptures to pick that one up. she ran off on him, refused to be submissive, just another reference that women are inferior and should obey. typical old testament.


2) .Cain and Able... banging their mother... kicked out of the garden...his 'people'

the removal from the garden came before Cain and Able, especially before the murder. again, a mysterious woman pops up, "Judith". no one knows where she came form. strange thing, old scripts again.


3) ...flood story... get on mom.

mostly in the old scripts the flood was not global, but a local happening, like sodom or gamorah. in addition to such there is a fair amount of evidence that the story itself was stolen, like a fair amount of other old testament stories. it was originally told as the story of Gilgamesh, a great hero who saved the world from a flood sent by an angry god.

Why are there over 6 billion people on this planet now if that story is true?

repopulation isn't too tough after 1000 years

Disclaimer: If I got any part of the creation story incorrect, I do not apologize. I do not profess to be a bible scholar, and have not, in fact, read the bible in over 15 years. I suppose I will not be considered a 'tolerant' person after posting this message, but that's okay.

correct sir, you are a dumbass

I'll say it for you:

Man, what an asshole.

[i]i would have called you an unimformed, whiny little bitch, but i suppose asshole is cool too. you should wait untill you know what you're talking about to complain, otherwise you make yourself look even less intelligent that you really are (read your original post, i think you actually were able to look less intelligent than you actually are). next time you want to swing by and insult a religion, get the facts right.

also, i think it's kind of funny that i know more about the religion you chose to defame while not believeing a bit of it myself. atheist power yo. the end.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roshigoth:
Cool link TEFL, interesting reading there.

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Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Abobo:
:

1) If God only made Adam and Eve, how did they go on to populate the world? It seems to me that even if they did copulate 17 times a day, inbreeding depression would have gotten to them and made all their children retarded and potentially unable to reduce. Yes, inbreeding is a genetic phenomenon whereby mating with close relatives causes previously 'hidden' deleterious traits to come forth and be physically expressed.

---

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"the mysterious "Lillith" phenom, Adam's first wife. you have to look into the really old scriptures to pick that one up. she ran off on him, refused to be submissive, just another reference that women are inferior and should obey. typical old testament."

Its in the Hebrew version.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Abobo:
In the random flood of electrical connections that I call my brain, I got to thinking about a parody of the creation story I once wrote an English class as an undergrad.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Varies
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I haven't laughed that hard since the last time I was at the dentist. Great piece of work...

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quote:

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Originally posted by HELL:

Its in the Hebrew version.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ItsJustLogan:

go figure, i'd never have guessed that old scripts of the old testament would be in Hebrew. you're too darn smart for me.

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if you're interested in biblical mythology and have the time, look up a book called "revelations of the dark mother". it explains the lilith (correct spelling) mythos better than i've seen it anywhere else. even though most of the book is a fiction (i believe it was created as a counterpart to that stupid vampire game), the creation story is excellent. the basic story goes:

adam and lilith were the first. adam got horny, and tried to, you know, get it on. but lilith refused to lie beneath him, as she felt she was his equal. he again attempted to have sex with her, and she cried out the secret name of jehovah, thus gaining entrance to heaven. at first god was pissed, but she nurtured him as the angels did not, if you get my drift. but he could not bear to share his wisdom and power, so he cast her out, outside the garden into the sunless lands. she eventually wandered to the sea, and used the seed of god (ew) to create her own world of beasts under the sea. but she was jealous that she did not have the powers to create as he did. and she hungered for the fruit of the tree of knowledge, thinking that with it she could become as powerful as he. when god learned that she might try to return to the garden, he set lucifer to guard it. when she came upon him, they spoke at length, and he saw that only truth lived in her heart, albeit a hurtful truth, of the betrayel of god. so he gave her a raimant of the night, so that she would rule the night as he ruled the morningstar. amazed by his true love, she turned away from her revenge and left to make a garden of her own. but of course, after awhile, she had to return one last time to steal some fruit for her garden as well. lucifer let her enter the garden, and she went in, disguising herself as a serpent. so now you see who talked eve into taking the fruit. it was lilith, encouraging the female to stand up for herself.
so lucifer was cast out, adam and eve were cast out, everyone suffered. blah blah blah. there's more, much more, but you'll have to get another storyteller to finish this one for you.

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ItsJustLogan:

I think, after reading your response, your post is somewhat left of center of the point I was making. Granted, I don't have the 'facts' straight, but the facts you refer to are from a text in which the true authors are not even known.

Most of the 'facts' you have pointed out have no bearing on what I was saying. To reiterate my point, if you believe that the world was populated by a very few people (whether or not it was two people, or even 200), you are living in a land of fairy tales. Recessive traits which could often prove deleterious to phenotype of an organism are usually masked by more dominant traits which are more functional in a given environment. However, when individuals of similar genetic make-up, such as brothers, sisters, etc mate, these recessive traits can be brought to the surface, due to the fact that members of a family will often carry the same recessive traits. If you strictly consider Mendelian inheritance, there is a 25% chance that the recessive trait will be expressed. That's why incest is illegal in most states.

Numerous examples in nature demonstrate that if a population which reproduces sexually falls below a certain level, there is no chance for recovery (especially in a species in which the gestation period is so long, such as for humans), and the population will be driven to extinction. Obviously, there are a number of factors involved in this extinction, such as low genetic diversity, opportunities to mate, etc.

Since, in the bible, there weren't very many people to begin with, there isn't much chance that such low numbes of people could have been the founders of the population we have today.

the mysterious "Lillith" phenom, Adam's first wife. you have to look into the really old scriptures to pick that one up. she ran off on
him, refused to be submissive, just another reference that women are inferior and should obey. typical old testament.

---Not really relevant
the removal from the garden came before Cain and Able, especially before the murder. again, a mysterious woman pops up, "Judith". no
one knows where she came form. strange thing, old scripts again.

---Abobo: 1 dumbass point for getting the facts so screwed up. ItsJustLogan: 10 dumbass points for arguing the wrong point.

repopulation isn't too tough after 1000 years

--Only if you don't believe in genetics

correct sir, you are a dumbass

--Maybe, but you responded to my argument, as ill-thought out as your response was.
i would have called you an unimformed, whiny little bitch, but i suppose asshole is cool too. you should wait untill you know what you're
talking about to complain, otherwise you make yourself look even less intelligent that you really are (read your original post, i think you
actually were able to look less intelligent than you actually are). next time you want to swing by and insult a religion, get the facts
right.

---You should wait to post a response to an argument until you know what you're talking about. Otherwise, you look less intelligent than you may presume to be

also, i think it's kind of funny that i know more about the religion you chose to defame while not believeing a bit of it myself. atheist
power yo. the end.

--Often times, we present ourselves as very intelligent, and strive to make that point by pointing out the mistakes of others, whether or not it may have any bearing on the question at hand, if only to fill the useless void of our lives.

Hey, maybe I should take that medicine too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Abobo:


Most of the 'facts' you have pointed out have no bearing on what I was saying. To reiterate my point, if you believe that the world was populated by a very few people (whether or not it was two people, or even 200), you are living in a land of fairy tales. Recessive traits which could often prove deleterious to phenotype of an organism are usually masked by more dominant traits which are more functional in a given environment. However, when individuals of similar genetic make-up, such as brothers, sisters, etc mate, these recessive traits can be brought to the surface, due to the fact that members of a family will often carry the same recessive traits. If you strictly consider Mendelian inheritance, there is a 25% chance that the recessive trait will be expressed. That's why incest is illegal in most states.

i'm not siding with any religious views here, but you're also assuming a great deal. you have assumed that the original people on this planet HAD recessive traits. if "god" created these people, maybe they were genetically perfect, designed to mate within the perameters of the society he set for them. it would make sense, after all. maybe "recessive" traits were developed over the past couple thousand years or so, a product of the eventual pollution of the planet.

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If you're still hung up over that damn "How did they populate the earth from just two people..."

If you were inclined to believe the bible (not that I am) you could argue that God made Adam and Eve without such genetic problems, so the "inbreeding" wouldn't have any affect on them.

Anyway, the genetic fuckups would be introduced later in the form of genetic mutation, which happens all the time. That is the most likely source of the genetic diseases that you're bitching about.

Besides, you've got to remember that people did breed like rabbits. The mortality rate was high, so people had many children, some of which survived to reproduce and some of which didn't.

I'm just playing devils advocate anyway.. I don't believe in the bible, but I think I made my point that it's "possible" given the situation I just described, if you're so inclined to believe it.

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Behold! The Power of Cheese!
Graphic Cheeseworks.

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Registered: Aug 2000
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in addition to what dear Morgana has already said, if you're going to take the bible as seriously as you seem set to do, there are no traits at all. evolution does not exist and you are born specifically to a god's will and fancy.

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We spoke our minds too clearly. We assumed fundamental rights were inherent not as pawns but humynz. I do not require a gauge for freedoms of speech cuz I never asked to be a citizen. I never have and never will pledge allegiance.

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I don't believe in the bible either. I was really only trying to bait someone. Thanks for the flames (ItsJustLogan)--I need the practice. I'll try to find another topic next time that hasn't been beaten into such a froth next time.

A bientot

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While reading the bible you have to keep in mind what purpose it served in a primative time. The basic rules of co-exsisting lies with in its teachings, as do consequences for not following them. That was its purpose. It does state some historical facts, but that is only a small part of it purpose. You notice the "eye for an eye" teachings, along with the fire and brimstone teachings changed in the new testiment to suit the newer times it was written for. If you look you will see a very close path to Buddhism in the new testiment. A far cry from the old testiment's teachings. However still working off the "fear god" concept.

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Put the lotion in the basket.

[This message has been edited by HELL (edited 11-30-2000).]

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Registered: Aug 2000
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who are you anyway, the big muscly guy from double dragon?

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We spoke our minds too clearly. We assumed fundamental rights were inherent not as pawns but humynz. I do not require a gauge for freedoms of speech cuz I never asked to be a citizen. I never have and never will pledge allegiance.

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Registered: Nov 2000
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Goddammit, I thought I was being REALLY clever with that name...everyone seems to know who Abobo is, or was...

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If you read the bible REALLY closely, you're likely to go blind!

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I find the best way to explain your questions simply, from my point of view, is that you need to keep in mind that the bible has been translated, rewritten, "versioned", and politically corrected enough times to where you have got to be pretty fucking faithful to be a literalist.
It is a history book. Written with the same prejudices as the history books I read in school.
It is a book of metaphors. Written to teach the unlearned to conform and survive cohesively.
It is a book that provided a method to direct society without making the mortal powers that be seem so authoritarian.

A book of metaphors and tales and rules.
Interesting reading as so many books are.

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Don't argue with me.

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