Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 5270

Tal Tales
Patriotism in the schools

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: The Midwest
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I pledge allegiance to the Tal...

But seriously, have you run into a situation personally where you've had to deal with this recently? Or are you speaking more about the first 12 grades?

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Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Vista, CA
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No, the college where I teach doesn't seem to have any particular patriotic bent. In fact, given that it's a Catholic college run by nuns, it doesn't even have a particularly Catholic bent. They have masses and stuff, but nobody's given me any trouble over evolution or anything. I like it.

I was thinking more about K-12 schools.

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Beringia
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wow, we still have blogs?

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
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Yeah, the whole thing about instilling patriotism in schools always kinda bothered me, at least once I figured it out.

Of course, the high school I went to actually had prayers during assemblies. That bothered me more, but not enough to complain. Besides, I think they got around getting in trouble over it by letting students lead the prayers, or some such bullshit.

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The grade school I first attended was very small, having 90 students in 4 classrooms. We started everyday in every classroom by being required to stand, face the flag, place our hand over our heart and recite the pledge of allegiance, then stand, heads bowed, while the teacher read a prayer out loud.

About midway through 3rd grade I was bored one day, and I wrote it out, and thought about what it said. When I got home that afternoon I talked with Mom about it; she said talk to Dad. That evening I did. I showed him what it said, explained as best I could my objections, and told him I didn't want to have to say it anymore. We discussed it for quite awhile - a discussion that ended up involving my siblings as well. In the end, I was the only one who felt strongly about it, and so I was given a note to give to my teacher the next day.

When the bell rang to start school the next day we all trooped into our classrooms, and got ready for the school day. Mrs. Wrolstad, the 3rd and 4th grade teacher (also principal) called out her usual "All rise for the pledge". I stayed seated. She was facing the flag at the front of the room as well, so did not see me at my seat until she turned to read the prayer.

At that point the shit hit the fan. She asked if I had stood for the pledge, I told her I had not. She demanded that I stand and face the flag, say the pledge aloud so everyone could hear me, I refused. I gave her my Dad's note - she read it and turned purple, ordered me into her office at the back of the classroom. I went, and waited through the prayer. She then stormed into the office, slammed the door, and told me she didn't care what Dad's note said, I would obey her in class and I would stand and recite the pledge and the prayer. I told her I would not. She threatened to expel me, etc.

I told her she could not do any such thing without first consulting my parents, I had already discussed it with them and they supported me. It was a major issue to her, a minor one to my folks. In the end, I never stood for the pledge, or a school prayer, or the national anthem again save by choice. To this day, I decline the pledge, I decline to stand for the anthem. Mindless lemming-like expressions of "group-think" are not patriotism, they are indoctrination.

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Registered: Feb 2004
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We need to hang that American flag in every classroom and pledge allegance and shit and be all patriotic cause in history class,we are shown to be murderous land stealing slave generating assholes.
It gives balance.

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Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Vista, CA
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That doesn't give balance, it teaches students that they should show blind loyalty to a nation with a history of land stealing and slavery.

A counterproposal: present as close to an impartial and honest history of the nation as possible, have an American flag on the flagpole, and let the students decide how they feel about the US. Honestly, I think that overall we're pretty darned good, and most students will decide not to become armed revolutionaries.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: in colorado somewhere!
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But all the children will burn in hell if we did that.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
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quote:

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Originally posted by Talarohk
That doesn't give balance, it teaches students that they should show blind loyalty to a nation with a history of land stealing and slavery.

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Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Talarohk
A counterproposal: present as close to an impartial and honest history of the nation as possible, have an American flag on the flagpole, and let the students decide how they feel about the US. Honestly, I think that overall we're pretty darned good, and most students will decide not to become armed revolutionaries.

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Registered: Dec 2002
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Nothing new about any of that, Rosh. The victors typically write the histories. It is a phenomenon as old as written language, and undoubtedly older still in oral traditions.

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Registered: Aug 2000
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Never said it was new. But it's hardly honest and impartial.

Besides, the winners may write the histories, but uninvolved 3rd parties tend to write more accurate histories.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: kingdom of christ
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i remember back in the day when the teacher was talking about those silly vikings:

"..and sometimes they would surround someones house and set it on fire, which would either cause the occupants to leave their house so they could be killed, or they would burn alive inside".

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Registered: Feb 2004
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They should play this documentary in all the classrooms.

Attachment: b000000pop.01._sclzzzzzzz_.jpg
This has been downloaded 51 time(s).

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Seems to me that the pledge hasn't exactly helped our voting percentages. I can't remember the number of people who vote, but I'm pretty sure it's under 15%. Don't think the pledge is really cranking out patriots, so yeah -- not serving a purpose. :- )

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