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skalie
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SQL server hosting....

.... appears to be a little bit pricy compared to the old php/mysql deals.

What can I expect to pay a month?

50mb or so, not so much bandwidth.

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02-07-2006 07:42 PM

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Smug Git
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I guess that it's pricey because of licensing.

Random googling suggests prices from 35 bucks a month to 300 bucks a month or so. However, I don't know whether the cheaper ones are legit (like discountasp.net and assuming that they're actually providing the software too and not just the hosting).

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02-07-2006 07:49 PM

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macker
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Are you specifically looking for MS SQL hosting or just generic SQL hosting?

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02-07-2006 08:00 PM

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Smug Git
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must be MS SQL, surely, from his post?

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02-07-2006 08:13 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by macker
Are you specifically looking for MS SQL hosting or just generic SQL hosting?

from the handbook....

Will run on.......

"Microsoft Windows 2003 Server platform and
utilizing Microsoft SQL Server technology "

Would that rule out generic? I have a feeling that the application has been thrown together using .NET.

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02-07-2006 08:22 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Random googling suggests prices from 35 bucks a month

About what I'd need to pay a year for php/mysql icluding domain name. ( far use unlimeted bandwidth, 500mb, yadda, yadda, yadda )

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02-07-2006 08:28 PM

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Smug Git
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If you had the application source, you could probably change it to work on pretty much any database, but as you won't have that, they'll have written it with the sql-server specific connection, command and accessor objects, so you're probably out of luck. And if they use specifically T-SQL, you'd have to rewrite that, too. If you had the source. Which you won't.

You're bound to end up paying more for a commercial licensed product than a freebie, of course. It's not a bad product, either, although I don't know if it's strictly required for the application you've bought. Maybe they sell a MySQL-specific version?

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02-07-2006 08:36 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
If you had the application source, you could probably change it to work on pretty much any database, but as you won't have that, they'll have written it with the sql-server specific connection, command and accessor objects, so you're probably out of luck. And if they use specifically T-SQL, you'd have to rewrite that, too. If you had the source. Which you won't.

Smug, is that really you? Usually you don't come in here for more than a "change the laser" comment.

quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Maybe they sell a MySQL-specific version?

HIGHLY fucking unlikely.

I'm dealing with a company who has made their own WYSIWYG system.

I can hire the site for 20 bucks a week, or buy the site and then take care of the hosting, unfortunately they seem to need three days to answer a "what would the hosting cost by you?" email.

I will need to buy the site to have, ahem, ftp access.

Otherwise I'll need to use the admin panel to make changes, and then pass the admin panel on to the client hoping he doesn't fuck up my hacks.

The WYSIWYG editor has all the charm of a Geocities control panel, btw.

I'm thinking of writing up my own CMS as therapy.

Last edited by skalie on 02-07-2006 at 08:58 PM

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02-07-2006 08:52 PM

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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by skalie
Smug, is that really you? Usually you don't come in here for more than a "change the laser" comment.

I am writing some sql-server accessing web applications in visual studio.net as we speak.

I don't know why they wouldn't write a MySQL version, given that it probably wouldn't be that hard. Unless they've really got into SQL Server specific stuff (and I gather that for the InnodDB engine, MySQL now has a lot of the functionality that you'd find on, say, SQL Server, so it'd seem that the capacity to do the same stuff was there, at least).

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02-07-2006 09:00 PM

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Smug Git
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Of course, there's nothing wrong with checking the laser. Can't hurt*.

*Unless you look right into it. Or catch some reflections.

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02-07-2006 09:02 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
I don't know why they wouldn't write a MySQL version.

Can't see why they would feel the need.

What they have made reeks of Visual Basic, maybe they've used Visual Interdev, or whatever that thing was that came out next to Dreamweaver, but like I said, I'm pretty sure they've produced it with .NET.

One choice of menu, no wait two, vertical or horizontal, with code directly from 2002 Dynamic Drive, and what a fucking palava to do something as simple as tweak a style sheet.

*skalie not happy*

......... but back on topic, anyone know what I should be expecting to pay for some hosting with MS SQL?

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02-07-2006 09:10 PM

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Smug Git
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The thing is that the sql-specific objects have analogous odbc-specific and oledb-specific twins. So you can have a sqlConnection object and to first order* you can just replace it with a OdbcConnection or OledbConnection object. They all inherit the same class and implement the same interfaces.

While it wouldn't be trivial, it shouldn't be close to as much effort as writing the thing was in the first place. Maybe they get some kickback from SQL Server licensing or something.

*ie, you might need to tinker

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02-07-2006 09:14 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
The thing is that the sql-specific objects have analogous odbc-specific and oledb-specific twins. So you can have a sqlConnection object and to first order* you can just replace it with a OdbcConnection or OledbConnection object. They all inherit the same class and implement the same interfaces.

While it wouldn't be trivial, it shouldn't be close to as much effort as writing the thing was in the first place. Maybe they get some kickback from SQL Server licensing or something.

*ie, you might need to tinker

I'm probably not going to get fuck all source code, and it's all ASP, which goes against my morals, and I have never met the oledb-specific twins.

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02-07-2006 09:21 PM

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macker
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
It's not a bad product

Unless you use it in a mass hosting environment. SQL Server absolutely sucks if you have hundreds of diverse clients with badly optimized SQL. And the piddly little admin stuff that you invariably need to do for that kind of hosting, while trivial to do with MySQL and some creative scripting, is next to impossible to do with SQL Server.

Which is why we've started backending lots of our MS hosted customers that need SQL onto MySQL databases. Standard ASP doesn't do any engine specific SQL, so as long as the appropriate ODBC layer is there, it just magically works.

Don't get me wrong, if you have enterprise needs then SQL Server is pretty good, but the vast majority of web applications aren't very enterprise'ish in nature. Especially not CMS's which tend to use SQL servers as a kind of glorified filesystem.

skalie, though, is pretty much screwed. The licence and hardware overhead of IIS and MS SQL means that you're not going to find a hosting solution anywhere nearly as cheap as standard LAMP setups.

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02-08-2006 12:06 AM

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Smug Git
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I know a guy that writes CMS exclusively with SQL Server, for a variety of sizes of project. But it's not cookie cutter stuff, they've got quite a bit of IP in it.

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02-08-2006 02:40 AM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by macker
skalie, though, is pretty much screwed.

Indeed.

I can lease the application (s), for 20 bucks a month, have no ftp access and have to twink site through a cms that makes Geocities look like fun.

Or I can buy the application for 800 bucks to get limited ftp access, which means I'll be able to tweak the .css file for example to include a font-family as opposed to just choicing one font, and I'll be able to throw it a <br /> tag without it being automatically converted to <BR>.

.... and then pay, er, 20 bucks a month for hosting.

Hopefully I can link to a stylesheet on an external server, but what a pain in the fucking ass.

Last edited by skalie on 02-08-2006 at 07:23 AM

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02-08-2006 07:09 AM

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Smug Git
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You can just link stylesheet by URL, can't you?

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02-08-2006 04:42 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
You can just link stylesheet by URL, can't you?

Yeah, but a different server, not the tidiest of methods. It's also click click click to preview the results, as the external style sheets don't show up in the WYSIWYG view mode. Huge pain in the ass when tweaking.

I went for the big "Fuck You" today and am mimicing all the functionality of their content mangement system using open source solutions.

Which will in the end be way fucking better, and cost sweet fuck all to host.

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02-08-2006 04:56 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
You can just link stylesheet by URL, can't you?

*takes a step backwards*

How the fuck else would I do it?

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02-08-2006 04:58 PM

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Smug Git
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Well, that was sort of my point. I don't see why it wouldn't work remotely. Unless the hosting company are complete cunts, or something like that.

I guess that you can link by relative path in general? Although that would clearly not work here. But to answer how you'd link them otherwise.

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02-08-2006 05:06 PM

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skalie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git

I guess that you can link by relative path in general? Although that would clearly not work here. But to answer how you'd link them otherwise.

Still a fucking URL Smug, relative or otherwise.

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02-08-2006 05:30 PM

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Smug Git
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I've always thought of it as more an alias for a URL (to be converted into one). But I guess that I'm not familiar with the precise definition of what a URL is. I think of a URL as http://BLAH or ftp://BLAH but that's probably too specific.

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02-08-2006 05:37 PM

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macker
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Well, technically smug is correct. URL's include a resource access method(ie. the http/ftp/gopher/etc bit), while relative paths are more strictly known as URI's as they simply refer to the resource, inheriting the access method from the primary URL(in theory). Curiously, and to add to the general confusion of "U" prefixed TLA's, URL's are actually a subset of URI's(as a URI is a somewhat more generic label that encompasses both relative and absolute paths).

You *could* argue that relative paths in an HTML document are actually a URL as the browser may in fact resolve the relative path to an absolute one before retrieving it, but that's just being unnecessary pedantic.

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02-08-2006 07:11 PM

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Smug Git
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Even if they did resolve it, it'd still not be a URL in itself, just something from which a URL could be made/resolved, surely?

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02-08-2006 08:09 PM