Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Oceanside, CA
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Tal Tales
What I am, I am knot

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Registered: Apr 2005
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so, why not just stop looking for approval and start voicing oppinions?

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and for fuck's sake, stop visualising you perceived errors. that can only drive one mad.

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I have a lot of respect for your honesty Tal. I would suggest you look into what is known as mental deconditioning. You have so much education in your mind that it could be clouding over your deeper identity.

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Could be worse. The only thing at my core is sheer laziness.

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Like it or not, ours is a society that loves to use people as tools. It has complex mechanisms of self-reinforcing negativity aimed at those who don't want to conform.

This reminds me of the journalist Patrick Watson, who, when deciding whether to do his phd, was advised by a friend to lock himself in a dark room for a few hours and think hard about whether that is what he truly wanted or what his father wanted. Turns out, he never wanted it and never completed it, although he went on to have a stellar career, doing what he loved.

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quote:

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Originally posted by plum
This reminds me of the journalist Patrick Watson, who, when deciding whether to do his phd, was advised by a friend to lock himself in a dark room for a few hours and think hard about whether that is what he truly wanted or what his father wanted. Turns out, he never wanted it and never completed it, although he went on to have a stellar career, doing what he loved.

---

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While I don't regret earning my degree, I do think my motives may not have been as clear as I thought.

As to voicing opinions, that's part of the problem. I rarely have much of an opinion of my own.

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aww, poor soul. everyone has opinions. try it, that's what we have the asylum for.

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Dark night of the soul, perhaps? It may just be that you're moving beyond ego -- first steps are tentative, cause you to regress and to doubt. It's like looking at *nothing* for the first time -- whether it's just being out in the middle of the desert with no buildings or mountains or trees or just staring off into the ocean, watching it and the stars, and seeing nothing else. It's immense and it shatters the self. Closest I've come to understanding that feeling is by reading up on various mystics (Sts. Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, Blessed Julian of Norwich, etc.). Even then, language cannot approximate experience. In some ways, language (or attempts to fix something in place with language) may merely intensify the uneasiness.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
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Which is why Tal must consume lots of psilocybin as fast as possible.
You get your solitary adventure, your vision quest and the good ol' support stripping, all in a day's work.

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Registered: Feb 2004
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What a pile of narcissistic garbage that was.

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I do vision quests whenever I can. Long drives in the mountains,long nature walks...it really rules,man.
I think you should invest in a Harley. I wish I had one.

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There’s nothing wrong with a desire to please. Perhaps your core should be full with the rewards from all these outside sources you're working for.

What kind of person looks inward, visualises their internal motivation and says "Oh I must change that" rather than revelling in their basic nature and feeding whatever it is they've found.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Serial Thriller
There’s nothing wrong with a desire to please. Perhaps your core should be full with the rewards from all these outside sources you're working for.

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Desire to please is fine, I agree. I'm not so sure about "desire to be liked".

quote:

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What kind of person looks inward, visualises their internal motivation and says "Oh I must change that" rather than revelling in their basic nature and feeding whatever it is they've found.

---

One who has, for whatever reason, a very strong idea of what they think they "should" be, and finds that to not be what they are.
One who finds their internal motivation to be unworthy of feeding and celebration.

I have a pretty good idea of the kind of person I want to be (or maybe the kind of person who I think others would be happy with; but let's not get infinitely recursive ). So what should I do if I find that my innermost self is not that thing?

If one believes one knows what is right, is it one's obligation to try to be that, even if it is contrary to one's nature?

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Sometimes when I feel like that,I go to the mountains and chill with my guys at work. Sometimes we just lay back by the lake and just chill. Then I think about my guys as to what's going on in there. I mean they really don't have any tangible worries. Know bills or kids or wives..hell. Most don't even have families to think about. Then I get drawn to their souls...what keeps them happy...and then I realise that what I do with them must mean something. I mean yea,someone can see my guys in passing and think that they will never benefit society. But benefiting society is not the reason for existing.
The reason for existing is to achieve...joy.
You must always find something that gives you joy. Even if it's that goofy eraser you keep on top of your pencil you carry around.
Life is finding joy whether it's around the globe or just around the corner.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Talarohk
Desire to please is fine, I agree. I'm not so sure about "desire to be liked".
One who has, for whatever reason, a very strong idea of what they think they "should" be, and finds that to not be what they are.
One who finds their internal motivation to be unworthy of feeding and celebration.

I have a pretty good idea of the kind of person I want to be (or maybe the kind of person who I think others would be happy with; but let's not get infinitely recursive ). So what should I do if I find that my innermost self is not that thing?

If one believes one knows what is right, is it one's obligation to try to be that, even if it is contrary to one's nature?

---

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: is futile
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I need to reflect more on your post before I feel i can contribute in depth.

I sympathize with what you describe, and feel that I share it, but I am not aware of to what extent.

In the end, an adult is just a kid with experience (NO! Hawley), and I think the image of a person with a stable core and clear direction is a reflection of the ideals of society, rather than the deFacto empirical norm.

I also feel that you eloquently describe the main attribute of the emotion of love. What is that if not a benign state of insanity, where the urge to nuture, care for, and be wholly accepted by the other is so overpowering and intoxicating? I have no clue how that is relevant in this context, but there you go.

more later
-m

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
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What is this shit?

Your core is KINDNESS. Your kindness is not altruistic; it is practiced because it is the essence of who you are and it's how you define your self-worth.

That doesn't make you other-defined; it means that you define yourself in such a way that other people also end up happy. That makes you better than other people. You will want to argue that point with me, but you would be wiser to come to terms with that horrible reality and move on, behaving as you always have.

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If you need an ambition, Julius Evola is always ready with one:

quote:

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Action needs to be liberated. It must be realized in and out of itself,
disinfected from mental fever, cleansed from hatred and craving. These
truths must penetrate the soul: there is no place to go to, nothing to
ask, nothing to hope, nothing to fear. The world is free: goals and
reasons, 'evolution', fate or providence -all that is fog, an invention
by beings who did not yet know how to walk on their own and needed
crutches and supports. Now you will be left on yourself. You must
perceive yourself as a center of strength and know that the action is no
longer dictated by this or that object, but for the sake of itself:
detached, you will move. The objects around you will cease to be object
of desire for you-they will become objects of action. Gravitating around
things that no longer exist, the impulses of an irrational life will
finally become extinguished: what will fall is also the sense of effort,
the habit of running around, of doing, the painful seriousness and need,
the tragic sentiment and the Titanic bond: in other words the great
disease itself, namely the human sense of life. A superior calm will
ensue. From this will come action, pure and purifying action: it is an
action already, at any time and in any place, to take any direction. It
is a flexible action, free toward itself, superior to winning and
losing, success and failure, selfishness and altruism, happiness ans
misery; action released from bonds, from identification, from
attachment. Those who want the knowledge and the power of good and
evil must slay their 'passion' for 'good' or for 'evil'. They need to be
able to give as a pure act, as an absolute gift, not for the enjoyable
feeling of sympathy or mercy; they need to be able to strike down
without hatred. Detachment, silence, solitude-this is what prepares
the liberation of this view of life and of the world. Distance between
human beings. Not to recognize oneself in others, never feeling
superior, equal, or inferior to them. In this world, beings are alone,
without law, with no escape, without excuse, clothed only in their
strenght or weakness: peaks, stones, sand. This is the first liberation
of the view of life."

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Registered: Apr 2005
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if that doesn't snap you out of it, tal, nothing will.

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Registered: Jun 2001
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when you analyse a conversation in which you've automatically agreed with the other person, do you come away thinking, "that's not really what I really believe", or are you just happy to have engaged at all? What's in your head afterwards? Do you add anything to their points and expand, or just accept what they have to say?

Since you had your initial concerns, have you analysed situations where it occured and come to any other new conclusions?

/interested

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