Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

Scary.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Detroit
Posts: 665

and 17 Jihad boyz arrested in Canada.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

"Today’s terrorists are suburban men who neighbours invariably describe as “hard-working, respectable and British to the core”"

Great quote.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

That's not particularly scary.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

It appears that the 'chemical vest' arrests (including one non-fatal shooting) have come to nothing yet. Oops.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

20 active terror conspiracies afoot in the UK--not scary?

It's good and admirable that that doesn't SCARE a former (current?) citizen, I suppose. Perhaps the Irish thing is why.

I have to say that I was, at minimum, suprised by the knowlegde. Britain's done nothing to deserve that kind of invective. I have to wonder whether the relative number among the US population is higher or lower.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

quote:

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Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Britain's done nothing to deserve that kind of invective.

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24302

Not surprised at all. You ain't seen nothing yet. Stay tuned.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: wool puller
Posts: 10256

Well, they deserve it if for no other reason than killing of the real Paul McCartney and putting a no-talent look-alike in his place. It just took a bunch of ragheads to exact Paul's revenge.

Allah be praised.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

quote:

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Originally posted by CHiPsJr
20 active terror conspiracies afoot in the UK--not scary?

It's good and admirable that that doesn't SCARE a former (current?) citizen, I suppose. Perhaps the Irish thing is why.

I have to say that I was, at minimum, suprised by the knowlegde. Britain's done nothing to deserve that kind of invective. I have to wonder whether the relative number among the US population is higher or lower.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

The documentation provided by the article is definitely not enough to get scared by.

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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: I cant say I buy this completely,
Posts: 2506

quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
fear of terrorist acts is likely to be a lot more damaging than the terrorist acts themselves. Which is, of course, the point of terrorist acts.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

The use of 'terrorist' to my mind is to cause 'terror'. Clearly there's no point in causing terror in the people that you kill (because they, you know, end up dead). However, affecting the behaviour of vastly more people through a terrorist act is a great lever. Terrorists can't kill any significant fraction of the existing population using conventional terrorist means, but they can affect how those people feel and perhaps change the actions of their government.

If the WTC attacks never went any further than the physical damage (including the ~3000 people killed), then why would they do it?

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 352

looneydom?

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

Being looney doesn't make them stupid.

And it's not like they're the first people to use terrorist tactics anyhow. The IRA did a lot of bombing, the Tamils really went into suicide bombing (and invented the 'belt of explosives' approach), Hizbollah, Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade, Hamas, ETA, etc.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: wool puller
Posts: 10256

quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
The use of 'terrorist' to my mind is to cause 'terror'. Clearly there's no point in causing terror in the people that you kill (because they, you know, end up dead)....snip...

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4678

The applications of terrorism are well-documented, for instance, in Mao's book on guerilla tactics.

The point is not to kill people, but to either frighten or enrage them. A frightened adversary can be cowed; an enraged one can be destroyed. So long as the targeted populace is willing to negotiate you cannot get anywhere. The idea is to destroy the opposition willing to fight you, and take their place over those who submit.

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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: I cant say I buy this completely,
Posts: 2506

Squee is wrong too.

fubar, youre just a fuckwit.

fear of terrorist acts is not more damaging than the actual act. Terrorism has been used and is still used to create political results. It is an advertising strategy, it is not a battle plan. The line blurs a bit between insurgency and terorrism and then at the other end between insurgency and warfare but when we spaek of terrorism we mean actions that use violence to draw attention to an issue and force related change(of course Im not going to pin down one definition of terrorism but you get the point). Read a book or something? I mean, its pretty much day one stuff if youve given any study to terrorism. Again, terrorism is not a battle plan, it is something else(not terrorism exactly) when it is used in conjunction with other tactics. The defining characteristic is purpose, not effect...we have to look towards the goals of the individual(s) involved to actually discern what it is.

Mao was using terrorist tactics to advance an insurgent cause...which isnt technically terrorism as the root motive behind the acts themselves have, as you even stated, a goal different from that of terrorism alone. That is, the purpose of the acts is to assist the insurgent campaign being faught...these sort of tactics are called spoiling or disruption.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

Eatme, ever wondered if your books are outdated? People involved in either side of the terror is checking up to see if they're following historical traditions and term definitions. They seem more pragmatic in a world that has veered from the systems you claim to know about.
In other words, you're analysis triumphs by being the benchmark of outdated, half-studied whiners.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

I've read a number of books on the Northern Irish terrorist campaign. If you've been to Northern Ireland, you can see (even today) the divisions that were exacarbated by the actions of the terrorists. To say that it was just an advertising strategy is silly; it was their battle plan and they sustained it for about thirty years (advertising not really needed after the first few attacks, logic would suggest). Terrorism wasn't all that they did (vigelanteism was another part of their role) but their idea was to use violent acts against civilians as a lever on the government, and that lever could only really exist through the psychological effects of their terrorist acts (the cost of policing the province was another issue, to be fair, but not their primary aim).

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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: I cant say I buy this completely,
Posts: 2506

Sinn Fein. They didnt only do it through terrorism...they worked to reduce civilian death tolls in terrorist bombings(though brit police/spy types were fine). A perfect example really of what Im speaking about.

Coincidnece...its not that the thinking is dated, its that you dont see how terrorism is simply one tactic among many being used right now where we see human conflict. Sorry things are confusing and muddled for you and the world just doesnt seem to make sense anymore or whatever the fuck the problem is in your head...

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

What I see is how you as an allegedly learned person are unable to shed any light over what's going on, since what you know doesn't seem to apply to reality.
The funny thing is that the people you so vehemently support are the ones who took terrorism and twisted it to their own needs, rendering it useless as a term of analysis.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Just to the right of the moon
Posts: 3141

quote:

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Originally posted by 3MTA3
Squee is wrong too.

fubar, youre just a fuckwit.

fear of terrorist acts is not more damaging than the actual act. Terrorism has been used and is still used to create political results. It is an advertising strategy, it is not a battle plan. The line blurs a bit between insurgency and terorrism and then at the other end between insurgency and warfare but when we spaek of terrorism we mean actions that use violence to draw attention to an issue and force related change(of course Im not going to pin down one definition of terrorism but you get the point). Read a book or something? I mean, its pretty much day one stuff if youve given any study to terrorism. Again, terrorism is not a battle plan, it is something else(not terrorism exactly) when it is used in conjunction with other tactics. The defining characteristic is purpose, not effect...we have to look towards the goals of the individual(s) involved to actually discern what it is.

Mao was using terrorist tactics to advance an insurgent cause...which isnt technically terrorism as the root motive behind the acts themselves have, as you even stated, a goal different from that of terrorism alone. That is, the purpose of the acts is to assist the insurgent campaign being faught...these sort of tactics are called spoiling or disruption.

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