Registered: May 2006
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I heard a comment the other day about the raid on the two alleged terrorists on June 2nd down south, it when something like...."so what, they were raided by police on the strength of an informant, and somebody was shot"

Can somebody tell me what all the fuss is about? You don't see suspected drug dealers marching on parliament when nothing is found, or smugglers holding press conferences when the dogs don't find anything.
We need to get to the bottom of this shooting business though,but that's another story, talk about milking it for all it's worth, a serious case of compensation setting in me thinks! People get shot dead with less hastle than all this shit on a daily basis....ok, the daily basis was a bit heavy.

If nothing is found, the informant that set this up, for whatever reason or agenda, should be held responsible by whatever means deemed reasonable, i think publicity would do the trick. The authorities seemed to be pretty sure of themselves to go in the way they did.

It would not surprise me if the information supplied, was from the terrorist group/s the suspects were accused of being part of, as some kind of propoganda coup.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
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What, when, how, why?

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Registered: Aug 2001
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The fuss is that 250 police turned up at the guys' house, broke in, terrified them and shot one of them and, apparently, they were nothing to do with Islamist terrorism at all. On the strength of a nod from one informant. This after they shot an innocent Brazilian guy last year.

Many British people don't wish to live in a society where one person makes an accusation against you and 250 police turn up at your door and you get shot, I guess.

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Registered: Sep 2001
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It's sort of like the way Iraqi's take out their business competitors.

"Hey, psssst, you see that restaurant there, Saddam's going to be there for dinner tomorrow."

KABOOM !!

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mila kura si planina

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: summer!
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anyone have their email address?

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Registered: May 2006
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Smug Git
[B]The fuss is that 250 police turned up at the guys' house, broke in, terrified them and shot one of them and, apparently, they were nothing to do with Islamist terrorism at all. On the strength of a nod from one informant. This after they shot an innocent Brazilian guy last year.




I don't think 250 officers rushed through the front door.

Due to the seriousness of the "information", which was obtained by MI5 followed by a few weeks surveillance by police, the police entering the house aren't going to fuck about. Yeah the occupants are going to be terrified. Apparently, according to the victim, these 250 officers smashed the window and door in and entered, more or less in silence and without warning....I'm sorry I'm not having it

I'm sceptical whether the shooting was deliberate due to the fucker being still alive.

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Registered: Apr 2004
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So either they're vastly incompetent, or they have taken the law into their own hands.

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No, 250 officers didn't go into the house, I wasn't saying that. 250 officers were there and a bunch of armed ones smashed the door down and grabbed the guys, who had no idea what was going on, and one of them was shot (they were both unarmed, not unreasonably if, as appears, they weren't Islamist terrorists).

They most certainly would have smashed the door down without warning and with total surprise (there's not much point performing a raid any other way, if you are acting as if they are terrorists); that's the sort of thing that will h. The interviews I've seen did not have the victims claiming that 250 people fit into their house, they were claiming that there were 250 officers there, which I believe was announced by the police.

An ex-pupil of a school at which I used to teach was shot dead by the police during a raid (he had some involvement with the IRA); that's the sort of thing that will happen if you're raiding premises occupied by people that you believe to be terrorists. If the police are raiding what they are told is a terrorist household, they won't take any chances on the suspects killing them or detonating a bomb, etc; people are pretty likely to get hurt in the process of such a raid. This is why it's important that there is diligence in the process of identifying terrorists, because if you perform a raid like this on innocent people, they are as likely to get hurt as if they were terrorists and wheras the latter is, broadly speaking, not a tragedy, the former often is.

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Registered: Feb 2003
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If you were at home, and suddenly armed gunmen broke down the door/through the window without identifying themselves and grabbed at you, wouldn't you fight? If you happened to have a gun at home, wouldn't you shoot to kill?

Smug is correct. This is probably the only way to conduct a raid when the target is likely to be able to detonate a bomb at a moment's notice--but you had better be absolutely certain of who the target is, and that he or she really is a legitimate target. Had the innocent suspects in this case killed a police officer, I don't see how they could be blamed.

And I *like* police officers, as a rule.

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Registered: Dec 2002
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I had a distant cousin who worked for the Pasadena, TX city police, years ago. He took part in a "drug raid" on a guys house one late night, and was the guy who broke in the dining room window to enter the home. The homeowner blew him back out the window with a 12 gauge blast in the face, killing him on the spot.

When all the excitement was over, and the trial was held, turned out that they had the wrong residence, had failed to announce themselves as cops (per three neighborhood witnesses), and broke in 2 doors and six windows simultaneously entering the home. The home owner was shot three times, but survived. He was acquitted on self-defense, and collected a ton of money from the city and the county.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16487

sounds like all the more reason to do things the russian way:

surround house
attach a hose to the house (to convey gas of some sort)
demand unconditional surrender within 60 seconds or face supreme ass fuckery
???
win

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Registered: May 2006
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I would expect about thirty to forty officers entered the house, max. What i aint havin is that the police entered without warnings of the verbal kind.

The information is the key to prevent this happening again, or at least learn something off. I was trying toask who was responsible for analysing the information and authorising the raid. Yes it looks like this info was wrong, but who instigated it? the terrorists, MI5, The Home Office, The Bilderberg Group or the chef from the kebab house up the road because they complained about their kebab. Also what propaganda values has it got to all concerned.

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Registered: Aug 2001
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When the police do a raid on a dangerous person or persons, they don't necessarily announce that they're coming in, particularly if they believe that the individual(s) in question may use the warning to arm themselves or detonate explosives.

I would imagine that the raid arose from intelligence from MI5 or Special Branch (who are police), but police act under the direction of other policemen or under the aegis of the Home Office. The police said that 250 policemen and women were involved in the raid. I expect that less than 10 would have gone in at first, then a lot more to check the place out after the arrests had been made.

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Registered: May 2006
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No they don't announce they're coming through the door, but are they not bound by law to state that they are going to blow ones head off......which is my point about the shooting, the geezer is still alive, stuffy cunt, what do you think about the excuse :the police gloves were too thick and the person pulled the trigger, didn't remember pulling the trigger.

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Registered: Sep 2001
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In my day they had to produce a warrant.

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mila kura si planina

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I doubt that those police were 'shooting to wound', unless for some reason they'd been given special ammunition. Given what they'd been told, I'd have expected them to 'shoot to stop' which is pretty much a euphemism for 'shoot to kill', it seems.

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They didn't have guns in those days, Smug.

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mila kura si planina

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They have to have a warrant unless they have reason to believe that there is a crime being committed at that time. However, I don't think that they have to show it if they believe that they would be in serious danger if they gave warning of their intent to enter the property.

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Registered: Sep 2001
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"if they believe" ?

Surely there must be different classes of warrants then, as in... " one that must be shown" and a "fuck you, we're coming in anyway"

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mila kura si planina

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Registered: Aug 2001
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Yeah, I would imagine that they might have to apply for a warrant that allows them to break in unannounced (I think that in the US, this is called a 'no knock' warrant, although the latest USSC decision suggests that even if they don't knock, the evidence obtained with a warrant where they should have knocked is still valid).

They could still break in unannounced with no warrant if they thought a crime was in progress, though, I believe.

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Registered: Nov 2003
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I've seen the interview of the two brothers. And to be honest, they're both a couple of mugs. Hardly your fanatical jihadist. Now, those two couldn't even throw three mentos into a bottle of diet coke without spilling the coke and slipping over on the sweets.

Is the Metropolitan Police Force run by incompetents?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cockney_Rebel

Is the Metropolitan Police Force run by incompetents?

---

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Registered: Aug 2001
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They are too busy arresting chavs for Drunk and Disorderly to be collecting proper intelligence on terrorists.

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