Private Messages Options Search Blogs Images Chat Cam Portals Calendar FAQ's Join  
Asylum Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.8 Asylum Forums > Políticás der Monde > United Nations 'army' proposed
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread [new thread]    [post reply]
Hawley Griffin
fear on internets

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16488

United Nations 'army' proposed

quote:
When emergencies strike, Canadians dial 911.

But in countries racked by crisis, such a call for help — by civilians or government officials — is out of the question. So conflicts escalate, wounded and traumatized people go untreated and the survivors wait agonizing weeks or months for aid and shelter, as happened in strife-torn Darfur.

This week, a group of academics, former officials and security experts are tabling a proposal they hope will change that by creating an international rapid reaction force that could be deployed within 48 hours of a green light from the United Nations.

Composed of up to 15,000 military, police and civilian staff, including medics and conflict transformation experts, it would be recruited from professionals hired by the UN from many countries, and based at designated UN sites. Its actions would be authorized by the UN Security Council.

"It's not a new idea, but it has now come into its own," says Peter Langille of University of Western Ontario, an expert in conflict resolution, and one of the major contributors to the book entitled, A United Nations Emergency Peace Service: To Prevent Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity, which will be presented tomorrow at the UN.

"With countries moving away from UN peacekeeping, and troops overstretched in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, (the rapid reaction force) has new appeal."

The idea of a UN emergency force first surfaced after World War II, when hopes for an activist world body were at their highest. But it wasn't until 1994, in the aftermath of the Rwanda genocide, that it was considered seriously.

At that time, the United States worried that it would become an out-of-control "UN army," and developing countries felt threatened by what they saw as an interventionist force directed by the West.

A combination of lack of enthusiasm from the rich and opposition from poor countries resulted in the shelving of the project. Wealthy countries were also reluctant to commit their resources to an emergency force, and funding of peacekeeping operations was already lagging.

But, says University of Notre Dame political scientist Robert Johansen, the book's chief writer, reservations could now be overcome: the emergency peace service would be a professional force that would not sap national military resources, or leave countries in doubt about how long their troops might be involved in new conflicts.

And, he says, a UN force could help to head off horrendous massacres such as the Rwanda genocide and the current crisis in Darfur. It would also counter the widespread belief that "too little too late has become the rule, not the exception" for international peacekeeping.

"The international community could prevent many of these crimes if it would act quickly and send a professional security force to enforce the law."

With an independent force at their disposal, and no obligation to send in their own troops, the Security Council's often squabbling members would have less reason to drag out debates about when to intervene in crises.

"We can demonstrate that it's a more cost effective and sound investment than the alternative (of war)," says Langille. "That means not only dealing with genocide, but preventing armed conflict and protecting civilians, ensuring the prompt start of peace operations and addressing human needs."

The new emergency force could cost $2 billion to establish, much less than the costly wars that have flared across Africa and Asia in recent years.

It would complement the UN's recently endorsed "responsibility to protect," a Canadian-backed doctrine that makes the world body's members responsible for intervening when a conflict threatens the lives of civilians.

The proposed force would have UN-designated bases, with mobile field headquarters staffed by personnel with a wide range of professional training.

"A UN agency would for the first time in history offer a rapid, comprehensive, internationally legitimate response to crisis, enabling it to save hundreds of thousands of lives and billions of dollars through early and often preventive action," the book says. The new force could be built on the framework of existing UN peacekeeping initiatives, such as a "Standby High Readiness Brigade" for peace operations, it adds.

Peacekeeping professionals are in favour of the rapid reaction proposal in principle. But, they say, there are hurdles to surmount before such a force could be viable.

"The concept is sound but it would depend on who was willing to join up and ante up," says Canadian Col. Pat Strogan, vice-president of the Pearson Peacekeeping Centre. "If there weren't reluctance on the part of countries to contribute in the past it might have taken root by now."

Speeding up intervention is a "significant step forward," said Strogan, who was commended for courage under fire in Bosnia.

Sunil Ram, a peacekeeping expert and professor at the American Military University, said serious questions remain for the proposed UN emergency force.

"Security and logistics are two of the most important," he says. "It's good to fly people off to wherever they are needed, but it takes a lot of planning. First you have to get hold of the equipment. And if you ship in heavy equipment it could take 30 days if you're lucky. You could send in troops with rifles, but would they be able to create the kind of secure environment that's needed to protect people in conflict zones?"

In spite of difficulties, a UN emergency force would give people in crisis new hope and help to re-establish the UN's credibility, says Langille.

"There are too many looming challenges in the world for us to continue as we have. If we don't get around to better ways of co-operating we as a species will be challenged."


source

__________________
how pitiful ordinary human feelings are in the face of implacable injustice

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 07:40 PM
Hawley Griffin is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Hawley Griffin Click here to Send Hawley Griffin a Private Message Find more posts by Hawley Griffin Add Hawley Griffin to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

I can't see that happening.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 08:05 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Coincidence
Search & stone drone

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

It surely is a dangerous thing.

__________________
"Rav Yehuda says, there are twelve hours in a day. The first three hours God sits and learns the Torah, the second three hours he sits and judges the world.
The third three hours God feeds the entire world... the fourth three hour period God plays with the Leviathan"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 09:02 PM
Coincidence is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Coincidence Click here to Send Coincidence a Private Message Visit Coincidence's homepage! Find more posts by Coincidence Add Coincidence to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26384

EVERYBODY PANIC!

__________________

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 09:03 PM
Paint CHiPs is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Paint CHiPs Click here to Send Paint CHiPs a Private Message Visit Paint CHiPs's homepage! Find more posts by Paint CHiPs Add Paint CHiPs to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Hawley Griffin
fear on internets

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16488

the paper weight army will crush any opposition

NEW. WORLD. ORDER.

!!!!!

__________________
how pitiful ordinary human feelings are in the face of implacable injustice

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 09:05 PM
Hawley Griffin is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Hawley Griffin Click here to Send Hawley Griffin a Private Message Find more posts by Hawley Griffin Add Hawley Griffin to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

They will have black helicopters but no one will know because they'll also be INVISIBLE.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 09:21 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

INVISIBLE and completely SILENT.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-15-2006 09:21 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

Perversely enough, I actually support the idea of a UN RDF. Provided, of course, that the participating soldiers are volunteers.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 03:40 AM
CHiPsJr is offline Click Here to See the Profile for CHiPsJr Click here to Send CHiPsJr a Private Message Find more posts by CHiPsJr Add CHiPsJr to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

A group of paramilitaries that is effectively controlled by over a hundred nations, that's going to be effective.

I can see them being able to do uncontentious stuff like disaster relief (and, indeed, they may find it easier to get into some countries than national forces would). If it comes down to shooting at people, I just can't see it. Also, I don't trust the five veto-wielding members of the UNSC to allow such a force to be effective in many situations. The idea looks fraught with difficulties, to me.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 12:08 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Coincidence
Search & stone drone

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

Not to mention how dangerous it is.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 12:49 PM
Coincidence is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Coincidence Click here to Send Coincidence a Private Message Visit Coincidence's homepage! Find more posts by Coincidence Add Coincidence to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

INVISIBLE, completely SILENT and shooting MIND BULLETS.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 01:05 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Coincidence
Search & stone drone

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

I have reasons to believe I bumped into one of those last night.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 01:28 PM
Coincidence is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Coincidence Click here to Send Coincidence a Private Message Visit Coincidence's homepage! Find more posts by Coincidence Add Coincidence to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
I have reasons to believe I bumped into one of those last night.


Not 'UGLY and DESPERATE and PROBABLY FEMALE'?

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 01:37 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Coincidence
Search & stone drone

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Den
Posts: 10984

Strange but telling how those properties overlap with the UN black helicopters'.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 01:42 PM
Coincidence is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Coincidence Click here to Send Coincidence a Private Message Visit Coincidence's homepage! Find more posts by Coincidence Add Coincidence to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
skinny
Bone-yard

Registered: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 3650

In military terms 15,000 men isn't that much, surely, so on numerical terms this isn't feasible. We would need a force to kook after our force. What would happen if this force was deployed to a conflict, and then it kicked off on the other side of the world. They would have to say to one of the crisis victims, you'll have to wait a couple of months while we sort this other shit out.

__________________
Fuck you and fuck all your mates...for now anyway

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 01:50 PM
skinny is offline Click Here to See the Profile for skinny Click here to Send skinny a Private Message Find more posts by skinny Add skinny to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

15 000 is a lot compared to your average 'peacekeeping' mission, deployment, I think.

Not much if you want to invade and occupy a big, sandy country.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 03:11 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Trenchant_Troll
ad hominid

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 24302

.

Attachment: unarmy.jpg
This has been downloaded 52 time(s).

__________________
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 03:21 PM
Trenchant_Troll is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Trenchant_Troll Click here to Send Trenchant_Troll a Private Message Find more posts by Trenchant_Troll Add Trenchant_Troll to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
CHiPsJr
Ginger-headed Troll

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 7504

quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
A group of paramilitaries that is effectively controlled by over a hundred nations, that's going to be effective.


There's no reason it'd be any less effective than the PKOs, which have been useful in some limited circumstances.

Where genocide is concerned, the alternative to a UN RDF force is more or less nothing. I'm no more confident than anyone else that the UN will actually have the balls to make use of its force, but the worst case scenario is that they have it and don't use it, in which case their ideological bankruptcy is exposed and their human rights credibility is ruined. Which would in itself be a good thing. And even occasional, minimally effective intervention would be better than the status quo approach in, say, Darfur.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 04:03 PM
CHiPsJr is offline Click Here to See the Profile for CHiPsJr Click here to Send CHiPsJr a Private Message Find more posts by CHiPsJr Add CHiPsJr to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

It'd take a lot to stop a genocide in some cases (like, getting permission from the country in which it is happening to enter that country). You are right, though, that UN member nations would be more likely to authorise such a deployment when it's not their own troops that would be sent. My concern is that while there would be some gains, it's a new role for the UN (of the sort that some on the Left and Right imagine the UN should have) but that it's going to be really very fraught. I just can't see 'UN, World Police' working.

As for Darfur, I'm not sure what numbers would be required. it's a fucking big region.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-16-2006 04:21 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
willimo
Erythrophiliac

Registered: Jan 2003
Location: mediocre apartment
Posts: 2614

quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Dumb


-1

__________________
Hey carrot juice, I want to squeeze you away until you bleed.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-19-2006 03:42 PM
willimo is offline Click Here to See the Profile for willimo Click here to Send willimo a Private Message Find more posts by willimo Add willimo to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
torque
SupaTwistyPowa!

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Ducktown, GA
Posts: 1426

They could just pony up and buy a service contract with the French Foreign legion.

But in reality, the idea of standing up a international force has to be a logistical nightmare if it really is operated by the UN itself. Where do you train them? What weapons systems should be sold to them, and by who? What doctrine is followed?

The big question for some of us is: Will they still wear those bright blue helmets that are highly visible in most light conditions?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-19-2006 07:43 PM
torque is offline Click Here to See the Profile for torque Click here to Send torque a Private Message Find more posts by torque Add torque to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Smug Git
Arrogance Personified

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35561

Given that that is part of the purpose of the bright blue helmets, I believe, they probably would.

__________________
I want to live and I want to love
I want to catch something that I might be ashamed of

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-19-2006 07:49 PM
Smug Git is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Smug Git Click here to Send Smug Git a Private Message Find more posts by Smug Git Add Smug Git to your buddy list [P] Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
skinny
Bone-yard

Registered: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 3650

If they are going in aggressively they will have to lose the helmets surely?

__________________
Fuck you and fuck all your mates...for now anyway

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 06-19-2006 07:53 PM
skinny is offline Click Here to See the Profile for skinny Click here to Send skinny a Private Message Find more posts by skinny Add skinny to your buddy list [