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JOEBIALEK
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Registered: Feb 2004
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Energy Part 2

In response to the article appearing in most major newspapers across the country concerning the $8.4 billion profit reported by Exxon. Concern over profits by this oil company has brought about accusations of gouging the American consumer. According to the article, "CEOs from Exxon and its industry peers have already appeared twice at Senate hearings and were asked to justify their profits shortly after reporting them to shareholders." This has to be an American first. I have never heard of a company being called to justify it's profits. One wonders if an extension of this idea could be made to other companies in other industries as well.

Per the article, "Lawmakers believe the profits are made on the backs of consumers who are paying a national average of $2.91 a gallon - 68 cents more than last year. Exxon says a strong commodities market combined with fortuitous planning and prudent management are producing record numbers." This should make Americans ask the fundamental question: what is the difference between what a public non-profit utility company provides and what a private for-profit oil company provides? Afterall, they both sell energy to all United States citizens. The difference is that natural gas and electricity are sold in the form of a public good whereas oil is sold in the form of a private good. Accordingly, on the grounds of promoting national security, the United States Congress should convert all oil companies to utility companies. This would eliminate the windfall profits and force the oil industry to earn just enough income to cover operating expenses just as natural gas and electric utility companies are required to do. The resulting drop in gasoline prices would further stimulate the economy and lighten the energy stranglehold upon the United States by the Middle East. It would also eliminate the influence of the oil lobby. In this case, desperate times call for deliberate measures.

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Old Post 06-16-2006 01:28 AM
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SimpleSimon
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Well, Joe, I've got to wonder how old you are?

Ever hear of the oil crisis of 1973? How about round two, in 1980? Ever heard of the Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act, which was levied upon all oil produced and sold after 2/20/1980? Such taxes do not lower prices, they merely give the government more money to waste.

Converting oil companies from for profit privately held corporations to public utility trusts is 1) theft, pure and simple; 2) a guarantee of graft and corruption on an unprecedented scale; and 3) not going to lower prices one thin dime (look at the Post Office, or the Bonneville Power Administration, or the Tennesse Valley Authority for examples of gov't run "utilities").

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"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, how dare you stand over me, perfect and healthy, and offer your help and your secret condescension.

" - John Varley, Steel Beach

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Old Post 06-16-2006 02:51 AM
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CHiPsJr
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This is the single dumbest idea ever proposed in Politicas. And that's saying something.

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Old Post 06-16-2006 03:44 AM
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Coincidence
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Relegated!

Btw, I think quite a few countries manage to do it Joe's way.

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Old Post 06-16-2006 09:51 AM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by Coincidence
Relegated!

Btw, I think quite a few countries manage to do it Joe's way.



Name one whose total internal market for oil and oil products is even 1/10 that of the US, please.

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"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, how dare you stand over me, perfect and healthy, and offer your help and your secret condescension.

" - John Varley, Steel Beach

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Old Post 06-16-2006 02:09 PM
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Coincidence
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Is that even possible?

My point was only that it's theoretically possible, but I don't think market size is as important as the potential incompetence of the government.

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Old Post 06-16-2006 02:38 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
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Communism theoretically works too.

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Old Post 06-16-2006 03:05 PM
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SocialParasite
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3) not going to lower prices one thin dime (look at the Post Office, or the Bonneville Power Administration, or the Tennesse Valley Authority for examples of gov't run "utilities").

That thirty-seven cents a stamp really is expensive, yo.

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Old Post 06-16-2006 05:06 PM
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CHiPsJr
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Man, we're really skirting the edges in terms of criticisms of this incomprehensibly insane proposal. Not that there's anything incorrect or unpersuasive about the objections yet mentioned; there's just so many, many more.

How about this: exactly how does the US turn several multinational corporations into a utility? Who controls, for instance, their offshore holdings?

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Old Post 06-17-2006 01:39 AM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by SocialParasite
3) not going to lower prices one thin dime (look at the Post Office, or the Bonneville Power Administration, or the Tennesse Valley Authority for examples of gov't run "utilities").

That thirty-seven cents a stamp really is expensive, yo.



Considering that it represents a 1,233% increase in postal rates since I began sending it letters, it sure the fuck does.

__________________
"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, how dare you stand over me, perfect and healthy, and offer your help and your secret condescension.

" - John Varley, Steel Beach

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Old Post 06-17-2006 02:13 AM
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skinny
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how much increase?

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Old Post 06-17-2006 02:22 AM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by skinny
how much increase?


You do the math.

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"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, how dare you stand over me, perfect and healthy, and offer your help and your secret condescension.

" - John Varley, Steel Beach

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Old Post 06-17-2006 02:30 AM
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JOEBIALEK
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good points

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Old Post 07-17-2006 11:01 PM
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BROKEN_LADDER
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Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
Well, Joe, I've got to wonder how old you are?

Ever hear of the oil crisis of 1973?



Suddenly my guess as to your age as gone from 22 to 50.

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Old Post 07-17-2006 11:25 PM
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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Communism theoretically works too.


No it doesn't. It doesn't maximize freedom.

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Old Post 07-17-2006 11:28 PM
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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
Considering that it represents a 1,233% increase in postal rates since I began sending it letters, it sure the fuck does.


Stamps were 3˘ when you started sending letters? Fuck...you're old as them thar hills.

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Old Post 07-17-2006 11:30 PM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by BROKEN_LADDER
Stamps were 3˘ when you started sending letters? Fuck...you're old as them thar hills.


The first time I ever pulled into a gas station and said "Fill 'er up", it cost me $3.42 to do so, in a vehicle that had a 22 gallon gas tank. It was not quite empty.

__________________
"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, how dare you stand over me, perfect and healthy, and offer your help and your secret condescension.

" - John Varley, Steel Beach

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Old Post 07-17-2006 11:36 PM
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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
The first time I ever pulled into a gas station and said "Fill 'er up", it cost me $3.42 to do so, in a vehicle that had a 22 gallon gas tank. It was not quite empty.


Alright, alright...I'll start giving you more respect...you're my elder. Good day.

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Old Post 07-17-2006 11:38 PM
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fubar
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
Considering that it represents a 1,233% increase in postal rates since I began sending it letters, it sure the fuck does.


Yep. That Wells Fargo wagon was cheap.

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Old Post 07-18-2006 12:25 AM
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CHiPsJr
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quote:
Originally posted by SimpleSimon
The first time I ever pulled into a gas station and said "Fill 'er up", it cost me $3.42 to do so, in a vehicle that had a 22 gallon gas tank. It was not quite empty.


Of course, in today's dollars, that translates to a little over $2 trillion.

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Old Post 07-18-2006 01:46 AM
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Smug Git
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With $3.42 back then, you could buy three good hookers for the night and still have enogh to get a good pancake breakfast and a course of penicillin.

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Old Post 07-18-2006 01:50 AM
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SimpleSimon
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quote:
Originally posted by CHiPsJr
Of course, in today's dollars, that translates to a little over $2 trillion.

No, only about $34, which buys 1.25 tanks of gas for my car.

__________________
"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, how dare you stand over me, perfect and healthy, and offer your help and your secret condescension.

" - John Varley, Steel Beach

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Old Post 07-18-2006 04:46 AM
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CHiPsJr
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Weird. So technically, gas is actually cheaper for you now?

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Old Post 07-18-2006 05:16 AM
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SimpleSimon
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Yes, it is.

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"...the last thing somebody crippled wants is your pity—and maybe not even your sympathy—he just wants to be normal again, just like everybody else. Every gesture of caring becomes a slap in the face, a reminder that you are not well. So damn your sympathy, damn your caring, h