Scenes From The Libertarian National Convention

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BROKEN_LADDER
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Scenes From The Libertarian National Convention

http://picasaweb.google.com/thebrok...NCE2006PORTLAND

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07-02-2006 05:03 AM

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Hawley Griffin
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one might think that slaves would disagree with that statement

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07-02-2006 05:25 AM

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CHiPsJr
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Chalamomska was there as well.

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07-02-2006 07:38 AM

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Smug Git
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Taxation: slavery-lite.

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07-02-2006 03:16 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
one might think that slaves would disagree with that statement

well, i'm a slave and i agree. and i'd imagine you're paying taxes as well...so...you're a slave too, so i wonder what you think about that statement, being a slave and all.

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07-02-2006 08:36 PM

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skinny
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What are your alternatives to tax Mr Ladder?

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07-02-2006 08:40 PM

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Paint CHiPs
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Using "slavery" is perhaps too over-the-top for most tastes, but it isn't, in the case of taxation, wholly inaccurate either. You're working for someone else's benefit under the threat of force, after all.

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07-02-2006 08:55 PM

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Trenchant_Troll
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Looks like quite a turnout. Almost enough to form a volleyball team.

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07-02-2006 09:25 PM

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Hawley Griffin
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quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
Using "slavery" is perhaps too over-the-top for most tastes, but it isn't, in the case of taxation, wholly inaccurate either. You're working for someone else's benefit under the threat of force, after all.

"you're working for everyone's benefit, including your own. under the threat of force. you are free to fuck off at any time you like"

much better!

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07-02-2006 10:00 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by skinny
What are your alternatives to tax Mr Ladder?

no tax.

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07-02-2006 11:01 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
Looks like quite a turnout. Almost enough to form a volleyball team.

my camera was out of juice in the main room, with the signs saying all the states being represented. i took pics of the merchandise area, and of a room where there was a presentation about the free state project.

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Paint CHiPs
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
"you're working for everyone's benefit, including your own. under the threat of force. you are free to fuck off at any time you like"

much better!

"Working for everyone's benefit" is I'm sure an excellent reasoning for slavery, too. "Hey, we need you for our economy. You're helping keep our agricultural system afloat!" Working for everyone's benefit is just a nice way of saying you're being forced to work for other people.

In the case of taxes, I can't "fuck off any time I like", in that I can't opt out of paying taxes. Well I can, but I go to jail, i.e. force is used against me for "opting out". I'm not free to fuck off anytime I like, unless I leave the country, but that's true for slave as well, if they can manage it. "Hey guy, tough shit if you were born here, you can leave anytime you like provided you manage it and don't get thrown in jail in the meantime".

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07-02-2006 11:14 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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now this is great. in the room where i watched the presentation about the free state project, i happened to see stan jones. i don't know whether any of you are familiar with him, but a few years back, he was a libertarian (gubernatorial, i believe) candidate in montana. he, and some other wacko, from the green party (i think), were interviewed on the daily show, in was has to be one of the most hilarious interviews ever. no one who saw that episode can forget the graphic where they superimposed a sillhouette of the green party candidate, along with his huge mustache, against a graph, and traced his eyebrows like a function. ohhh...fucking priceless.

but the best/funniest question they had for stan jones was, "stan...why so blue?" folks, meet stan jones.

quote:
"Montana's Libertarian candidate for Senate has turned blue from drinking a silver solution that he believed would protect him from disease," the Associated Press reports. "Stan Jones, a 63-year-old business consultant and part-time college instructor, said he started taking colloidal silver in 1999 for fear that Y2K disruptions might lead to a shortage of antibiotics.

He made his own concoction by electrically charging a couple of silver wires in a glass of water.

His skin began turning blue-gray a year ago............"

"People ask me if it's permanent and if I'm dead," he said. "I tell them I'm practicing for Halloween."

He does not take the supplement any longer, but the skin condition, called argyria, is permanent. The condition is generally not serious..............."

The Daily Show interview might be here.

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07-02-2006 11:25 PM

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Hawley Griffin
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quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
"Working for everyone's benefit" is I'm sure an excellent reasoning for slavery, too.

perhaps i should have added an ephisies on "including yours"

quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
I'm not free to fuck off anytime I like, unless I leave the country, but that's true for slave as well, if they can manage it. "Hey guy, tough shit if you were born here, you can leave anytime you like provided you manage it and don't get thrown in jail in the meantime".

slaves usualy don't have an option to just walk away when ever they feel like. you do

when slaves ran away they were hunted down and/or killed
if you deceded to leave your country for whatever reason, would your goverment hunt you down?

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07-02-2006 11:27 PM

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Smug Git
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Hey, you can always earn so little that you pay virtually no tax. Look on the bright side.

Slaves didn't get the option of working so slow that their owners just didn't bother with them anymore. Not in a good way, at least.

'Taxation = slavery' is about as sensible as 'Bush = Hitler'. Hyperbole to make a case just makes you into a joke. Such is the challenge of the teeshirt printer, I guess.

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07-02-2006 11:30 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
perhaps i should have added an ephisies on "including yours"

so if i take your wallet by force, and buy two new cars (one for me and one for you), even if you didn't want a car, that's not stealing, because it's to your benefit to have a new car.

i have a better way. let me decide what is to my benefit, and whether i want to invest money into it.

quote:
slaves usualy don't have an option to just walk away when ever they feel like. you do

if i just stop paying taxes, i have a suspicion i'll be put in prison, and have to live under constant threat of rape.

quote:
when slaves ran away they were hunted down and/or killed

some might have been killed. others just beaten and put back to work. you and me, if we don't pay our taxes, get thrown in prison and beaten/raped by other prisoners. some slaves are treated worse than others, i'll grant you that much.

quote:
if you deceded to leave your country for whatever reason, would your goverment hunt you down?

false analogy. the slave's leaving the plantation would be analogous to my ceasing to pay taxes.

you're trying to put the burden on the victim, instead of the criminal. that is, if i don't like being stolen from, i should just move, rather than "the thieves should stop stealing".

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07-02-2006 11:41 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Hey, you can always earn so little that you pay virtually no tax. Look on the bright side.

Slaves didn't get the option of working so slow that their owners just didn't bother with them anymore. Not in a good way, at least.

if this trivial difference, which only applies to me if i make so little money i can barely afford to eat, and certainly could never afford a home, is the best you can muster, than you have one pathetic position.

quote:
'Taxation = slavery' is about as sensible as 'Bush = Hitler'. Hyperbole to make a case just makes you into a joke.

no, that's not even a somewhat valid comparison. there is no hyperbole here at all! a substantial chunk of the work i do is slave labor. i'm working for the government, and if i don't i go to prison. you're saying that i'm not as hard up as a slave because at least i get to keep some of my wages, and at least i have the option of working to a barely subsistance level, if i want to.

the difference between me and the typical concept of a slave is like the difference between being raped once and being raped five times. it's not the kind of apples-and-oranges shit you're trying to portray it as.

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07-02-2006 11:46 PM

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Smug Git
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I was joking, Kuglo. It wasn't an argument in favour of anything (although I don't think that 'taxation=slavery', I'm not arguing that it's good or bad).

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07-02-2006 11:49 PM

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Smug Git
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quote:
Originally posted by BROKEN_LADDER

the difference between me and the typical concept of a slave is like the difference between being raped once and being raped five times. it's not the kind of apples-and-oranges shit you're trying to portray it as.

Ah, now you've moved into 'taxation/rape' comparisons?

What is your objection to discussion without presupposed conclusions, with points backed with evidence? Until you convince everyone that you're so much cleverer than the rest of us that we should just believe your proclamations, you're not going to get much out of this, I don't think. If you're not posting to learn, and you're not posting to actually debate and try out arguments (all of which I come here for, myself) then what are you doing?

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07-02-2006 11:51 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
"you're working for everyone's benefit, including your own. under the threat of force. you are free to fuck off at any time you like"

much better!

replace "fuck off" with "stop paying taxes", and then your statement is clearly false.

if i'm working for the benefit of "everyone" (including myself), then there's at least some stealing going on. what should be happening is that i'm working for the benefit of myself only, unless i choose to help others.

why do you advocate stealing? why are you against freedom?

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07-02-2006 11:54 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
I was joking, Kuglo. It wasn't an argument in favour of anything (although I don't think that 'taxation=slavery', I'm not arguing that it's good or bad).

well, then you're wrong. taxation is slavery, and that's a proven fact.

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07-02-2006 11:54 PM

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BROKEN_LADDER
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quote:
Originally posted by Smug Git
Ah, now you've moved into 'taxation/rape' comparisons?

any kind of victimization will do; although i think rape is particularly appropriate.

quote:
What is your objection to discussion without presupposed conclusions, with points backed with evidence?

that's the only kind of discussion i advocate actually, so i have no objection to it. i do have an objection to stealing though, and do generally violating people's rights.

quote:
Until you convince everyone that you're so much cleverer than the rest of us that we should just believe your proclamations, you're not going to get much out of this, I don't think.