Registered: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 67

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116...co/minimum_wage

oh crap, it is about to hit the fan, i sit here in amazement about the dems, do they not realize the implications of raising minimun wage.. yes it sounds great on paper, then the cost of goods go up, people lose jobs, and everyone wants a raise, billy bob was content with his $8.00 and hour job, now he is only making just above minimum wage, wait, now he gets a raise...I am a simple guy but I would think someone would get this...

and I was bored and wanted some asylum action

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19584

Thimbles will be around shortly to tell you why you're a filth sucking capitalist pig.

I'm all for getting rid of the minimum wage.

-m

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

7 states all voted to raise their own minimum wages on the 7th. I think about 2/3s of Americans favor it.

I don't, generally speaking. But I don't think 5.15 to 7.25 is going to make much of a difference so as to render the economic apocolypse. They ran on it, it was overwhelmingly popular, they have no reason not to do it.

Incidentally, Milton Freidman died today.

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: wookin pa nub
Posts: 10792

quote:

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Originally posted by r1burden
wanted some asylum action

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 67

I beleive if you raise minimun wage all gains will be a push, OK I make more money, but the cost of goods just went up to pay my salary, cost of transporting just went up to get me my crap . So no gains, and for willimo, my dick would touch the ground too, if you chopped off my legs

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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: mediocre apartment
Posts: 2636

I'm not an economist, but as I understand it there's a little more complexity to how raising the minimum wage affects the economy. From what read, there will be a momentary effect as people feel more prosperous, but it will recede and everything will be pretty much back to normal, goods not costing all that much more, (especially not much more than normal inflation would cause, which is pretty quick these days), and everyone who benefited form the wage increase will be happy because they got their increase, even though it's meaningless.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Disgusting den of creepitude
Posts: 10557

Congress votes themselves a pay raise every year. They could take a pay cut to lessen the burden when the minimum wage raising takes effect.

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Registered: Nov 2003
Location: North Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 3374

Why pay Americans all that money when you can get a Mexican to do it for half that?

I don't see a problem with raising it though.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4700

You would expect the increase in overhead to push the sweet spot where "supply" and "demand" cross over to the right: goods will cost a little more, and people will be able to pay a little more, so very little will change.

However, if you look at it in absolute terms, three things are apparent. One, not everyone is at the minimum wage. A hike in the minimum wage doesn't mean that my salary, for instance, will increase. So now I have to pay more for the same products and I'm not making any more money. As with any event where something is affecting price, this becomes an opportunity for competition among vendors: Wal-Mart can take away some of Target's market share by losing some profits for a short time.

Second, whether or not your cost of goods goes up depends largely on how you participate in the economy. When oil prices go up, the cost of Chilean wine goes up because it costs money to ship it here. But, if I drink local wine, I don't end up paying more. I also support local business, which is important for other reasons.

Third, in general terms, as I said you would expect the "sweet spot" to get moved to the left or right depending on wages and prices. But this is not a linear relationship. For example, wages are just one of many costs a business faces, so if for example they had to pay NO wages, it's not as if price would fall dramatically (but since they would have fewer customers capable of buying goods, the business would probably fail). Likewise if employees were paid a million dollars a year, the business would fail. There is probably another "sweet spot" that balances wages and costs among other factors, which I think should be set organically by the market with some constraints, because if the market is completely free then a lot of people will get reduced to grinding poverty.

A lot of this is laid out in GK Chesterton's "Outline of Sanity" which I have just picked up. The market as it operates now is full of hypocrisy and waste--for example, the fact that Wal-Mart wants its employees poor and its customers wealthy, even though they are the same people--which could be adjusted if we employed a more distributivist approach (generally that means favoring small, local businesses).

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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: mediocre apartment
Posts: 2636

Wages aren't overhead, they're sunk cost. (My girlfriend always scolds me over that, so I've gotta lay it out if I get a chance.)

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Registered: Jul 2000
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get ready for unemployment to jump

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: St Maries, ID
Posts: 6674

quote:

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Originally posted by willimo
Wages aren't overhead, they're sunk cost. (My girlfriend always scolds me over that, so I've gotta lay it out if I get a chance.)

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Registered: Sep 2006
Location: St Maries, ID
Posts: 6674

quote:

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Originally posted by r1burden
OK I make more money,

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16815

you can count?

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35669

Fucking socialism. Although it's not restricted to the Dems, as paint points out.

Seeing people living like shit on minimum wage should be an enticement to graduate high school and work hard, so as not to end up like that, not an enticement for Big Government to step in and force employers to pay higher wages. I am about 100% opposed to the minimum wage at any level. The UK managed fine without it before Blair and his pinko rabble introduced it.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16815

quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
living like shit on minimum wage should be an enticement to graduate high school and work hard

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 4700

quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
Fucking socialism. Although it's not restricted to the Dems, as paint points out.

Seeing people living like shit on minimum wage should be an enticement to graduate high school and work hard, so as not to end up like that, not an enticement for Big Government to step in and force employers to pay higher wages. I am about 100% opposed to the minimum wage at any level. The UK managed fine without it before Blair and his pinko rabble introduced it.

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: south afrika
Posts: 16815

quote:

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Originally posted by squee


If this point needs reinforcement I could always mail you my copy of "The Jungle."

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Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:

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Originally posted by Smug Git
Seeing people living like shit on minimum wage should be an enticement to graduate high school and work hard, so as not to end up like that.

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Registered: Oct 2004
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Posts: 431

The minimun wage in Alberta,Canada went up several years ago, and it was had not shown raise in the cost of good or services, however...along with that added wage, came a 10% tax hike on tabacoo and alchol.
What has really pushed our cost of living here in Alberta, is the Oil Boom.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35669

The UK didn't have a minimum wage until pretty recently, Squee, and I don't think that poverty was terrible there (not as bad as what I've seen here, for that matter, where there has been a minimum wage for ages).

And what sort of worker do you people think ends up on minimum wage, as a general rule? How does one become so unsaleable in a relatively healthy economy?

Last edited by Smug Git on 11-19-2006 at 01:36 AM

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Registered: Jan 2004
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People who aren't motivated by money? Who want a simple life? Most min. wage workers aren't that bad. Have you ever met one? They can't be half as bad as those who judge others based on how much they make.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Hilbert Space
Posts: 35669

I'm certainly judging their employability (well, the market is). Of thoes that are 'not motivated by money', then fair enough; no need for the government to step in and force their employers to pay them more of the money they don't much care about.

Minimum wage workers are all sorts, of course. I was one myself when I was 16/17 or, at least, I would have been had there been a minimum wage back then. And I wasn't worth any more than that, at the time. Why should employers be forced to pay employees more than their labour is worth to that employer?

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