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Paint CHiPs
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Registered: Jul 2000
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A Good Reason to Hit a Cop

The story about the UCLA tasing.

quote:

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your fucking abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.


The story needs the video for the appropriate context.

Now, the student is being an ass, I'm sure. But, I think it's pretty clear that the cops behavior here is outrageous.

You can't taze somebody for failing to stand up after the first time you tased them. The kid, by all accounts, wasn't fighting, wasn't struggling, he was lying on the ground. That would be resisting arrest at worst, civil disobedience at best. But, in any case, the proper response would be to handcuff him and pick him up. Instead, they taze him several times.

I had a weird experience watching the video. After about the halfway point, when he's already been tazed and is no longer even speaking coherently and the cops keep repeating "stand up or we'll taze you", I started shouting to the students surrounding the scene "Hit them! Start throwing books at them or something! Wade in there and punch the cop in the face!" I'm about as pacifist in my own life as you can get, and certainly wouldn't normally advocate a riot, but in this instance, that feels like the most appropriate response, at least in an internal sense of feeling "rightness". The cops needed to be run out of that building on rails. The students should have turned over the tazed kid shortly thereafter, but the cops needed force used against THEM at that point.

Watch the video. Besides the obligatory comments about the kid shouting "This is your fucking Patriot Act!" in the beginning, past the knee-jerk rolling your eyes at that, what's your reaction to the use of force here, and what, if any, response from the assembling crowd do you think would have been appropriate, or justified?

I've never in my life had any urge to hit a cop (or really much of anybody), and normally give them wide berth and tons of respect for doing a legitimately hard job, usually very well. But that's a case where I would have gladly taken the tazing, beat-down, and assault charges that followed for the sake of doing the right thing, which in this case would have been a sucker punch and ensuing mini-riot.

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Old Post 11-16-2006 10:35 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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The student's name was Mostafa Tabatabainejad, by the way, second generation Iranian.

I wonder if it would have played out different if his name was Brad Anderson?

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:00 PM
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Cruise Director
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I agree that the officers appear to be using massively excessive force. I'm strugggling with what the students could really do. Asking for the badge numbers was kind of stupid, especially while the cops were dealing with the guy (right or wrong.) Are you ever justified in hitting a cop? Not sure. Especially since they have guns and will kill you.

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:00 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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They wouldn't have shot you, I don't expect. They would have tazed you, submitted you, and whooped the shit out of you later when they got you out of there, and you'd have an assaulting an officer charge to deal with, and every civil rights lawfirm in the country begging to take your case for free. I'm not even sure, if somebody would have stepped up, the cops would have been able to get out of there with you before having to beat a hasty (and absolutely justified) retreat.

I wouldn't normally expect my answer to "Are you ever justified in hitting a cop" to be "yes", but in this case, they were clearly in the act, clearly in the wrong, and nothing short of that was going to stop them. If it was just an issue of lodging a complaint or lawsuit later, fine--but the kid is lying there in front of you getting tazed repeatedly and crying out in what is clearly a situation where, if NOT for the badges, clocking the guy standing over him would be absolutely the most appropriate course of action.

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:03 PM
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Hawley Griffin
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watching people get tased is funny. in fact its so entertaining that i don't care if someones civil rights are being stomped on in the process.

tasing angry people should be mandatory

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:04 PM
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Cruise Director
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quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
if NOT for the badges,


It all boils down to that. We've been "trainied" to obey these people. I'm not saying it's right, because it's not, but there is a huge amount of trust given to these people that is obviously abused.

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:08 PM
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fubar
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I didn't know LADDER was a second generation dune dweller. And when did he start going to UCLA?

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:25 PM
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Paint CHiPs
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruise Director
It all boils down to that. We've been "trainied" to obey these people. I'm not saying it's right, because it's not, but there is a huge amount of trust given to these people that is obviously abused.


Much of it justified, of course, I believe. I mean, obviously cops have a fundamentally different motive in most confrontations, they have to, it's their job. And I totally respect that. My threshold for what calls for a punch in the face is pretty hugely high to begin with, but even more stratospheric when it comes to the police.

But, in this case, I don't think the badge is enough. Like I said, in any other instance, walking over there and punching the guy in the face would be not only justified, but practically morally demanded (unless you're a pacifist, which I'm not). I don't think the wide, wide amount of respect and obedience that the badge conveys is enough, in this case, to dejustify the appropriate response. Those kids altogether, or at least one of them, would have been entirely justified if they would have stepped in there and used force right back, I believe (to a pretty minimal point, obviously).

Like I said, I'm not a "rage against the machine" style Libertarian by any stretch, but six guys standing around tazing some kid on the ground out of frustration and malice (not need, in any sense of it), justifies the bigger group of people standing around to step in and put a stop to it, even accounting for the badges.

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:27 PM
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Trenchant_Troll
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I would submit that if his named had been Brad anything, they would have shot him in the face. I know I would have.

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Old Post 11-16-2006 11:31 PM
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Rokkr
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I wonder if these are real cops or rent-a-cops. Either way I'm willing to bet they couldn't pass the psych evals to become real on the street cops.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:07 AM
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HappylilPhuk
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You are suggesting that one of those students should of used force, against a police officer? Those officers were out of line, and most certainly abusing their powers, something about a badge that makes a person think they are god...but violence is never the answer, especially against a police officer. Even if the officer is clearly unjustified, doesn't justify the actions you are suggesting. There are proper procedures that can be followed to take actions against the officers, legally, ones that won't give you a record or jailtime....since I'm sure the penalties are far more stiffer for hitting a police officer.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:15 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
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"You are suggesting that one of those students should HAVE used force..."

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:18 AM
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Pinecrika
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Fcking cops. They ought to be drug out into the street and hoss whipped. Then hung with piano wire.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:19 AM
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Paint CHiPs
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quote:
Originally posted by Rokkr
I wonder if these are real cops or rent-a-cops. Either way I'm willing to bet they couldn't pass the psych evals to become real on the street cops.


They are real cops, UCPD (UCLA is their only beat), which is a subdivision of the LAPD.

quote:
Originally posted by HappylilPhuk

You are suggesting that one of those students should of used force, against a police officer?

There are proper procedures that can be followed to take actions against the officers, legally, ones that won't give you a record or jailtime....since I'm sure the penalties are far more stiffer for hitting a police officer.


I wouldn't be worried about jailtime in this case. Obviously, if you're going to hit a cop, you should expect to get nailed, both physically in the immediate, and legally in the long term.

I'm not saying anybody was obligated to hit a cop. But what was interesting to me about my response to the video is how utterly justified I feel a forceful response on the part of the students would have been. I don't believe "violence is never the answer". It is NEARLY never the answer, but four guys standing over a kid writhing on the floor and repeatedly tazing him is an instance where using force seems justified to me, particularly if we're talking about a large crowd standing around watching, nearly every one of whom (it seems to me) clocked the situation for exactly what it was, which was thuggery.

Take it out of the hands of the police, and have it be you and fifteen of your buddies leaving a bar and seeing four guys tazing some kid in the street, over and over again, when clearly the kid is not fighting or even resisting, he's just lying there hollaring. In that case, is violence possibly a response? I would say yes.

Now, put it back to this situation, and ask what it is about the badge that dejustifies that appropriate response in this case?

Of course, it may be for the best that none of them did react that way. But I think somebody should have, or at least can understand why somebody might have, and been totally justified in doing so.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:34 AM
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Trenchant_Troll
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quote:
Originally posted by Pinecrika
Fcking cops. They ought to be drug out into the street and hoss whipped. Then hung with piano wire.


You are acutely aware of alcohol at the moment, aren't you?

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:38 AM
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Pinecrika
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No, I'm not, I'm nicer when I drink.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:42 AM
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Rokkr
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quote:
Originally posted by Pinecrika
No, I'm not, I'm nicer when I drink.

That's probably what kept you from getting tasered.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 12:52 AM
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SocialParasite
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Re: A Good Reason to Hit a Cop

quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs
The story about the UCLA tasing.



The story needs the video for the appropriate context.

Now, the student is being an ass, I'm sure. But, I think it's pretty clear that the cops behavior here is outrageous.

You can't taze somebody for failing to stand up after the first time you tased them. The kid, by all accounts, wasn't fighting, wasn't struggling, he was lying on the ground. That would be resisting arrest at worst, civil disobedience at best. But, in any case, the proper response would be to handcuff him and pick him up. Instead, they taze him several times.

I had a weird experience watching the video. After about the halfway point, when he's already been tazed and is no longer even speaking coherently and the cops keep repeating "stand up or we'll taze you", I started shouting to the students surrounding the scene "Hit them! Start throwing books at them or something! Wade in there and punch the cop in the face!" I'm about as pacifist in my own life as you can get, and certainly wouldn't normally advocate a riot, but in this instance, that feels like the most appropriate response, at least in an internal sense of feeling "rightness". The cops needed to be run out of that building on rails. The students should have turned over the tazed kid shortly thereafter, but the cops needed force used against THEM at that point.

Watch the video. Besides the obligatory comments about the kid shouting "This is your fucking Patriot Act!" in the beginning, past the knee-jerk rolling your eyes at that, what's your reaction to the use of force here, and what, if any, response from the assembling crowd do you think would have been appropriate, or justified?

I've never in my life had any urge to hit a cop (or really much of anybody), and normally give them wide berth and tons of respect for doing a legitimately hard job, usually very well. But that's a case where I would have gladly taken the tazing, beat-down, and assault charges that followed for the sake of doing the right thing, which in this case would have been a sucker punch and ensuing mini-riot.



And then go to jail for him and lose my job? Uh. No. Doesn't even require a second of thought.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 01:40 AM
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CHiPsJr
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I can't make out enough from that webcam video to have any real idea what's going on.

I gotta tell you, though, I know for a fact that I wouldn't have the guts to be the first guy to swing at those cops, even if I did think it were the right thing to do.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 03:21 AM
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Nutrimentia
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I agree with CHiPsJr. If I had the physical skills to take a cop down, maybe, but I know I'd get my ass handed to and it wouldn't really help the guy getting tasered. Although if I was carrying a Taser, I might have run up and Tasered one of hte cops.

I would incite the crowd to go at them, and I'd throw shit. If I was confident they'd follow, I would lead the charge. But not if I'm the only one running at them. Unless I had a taser.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 03:53 AM
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Rokkr
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I still think these guys, although they're technically LA cops, are still just one step removed from rent-a-cops.
I mean a real cop, like Vic on The Badge, would have just popped the kid in the mouth and dragged him outside.

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Old Post 11-17-2006 04:10 AM
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