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oxsan
Religion and the Schools

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By the same token, I think it is none of our business to tell the Pakistani and Palestinian governments what they may teach in their schools and madrasses. We can, however, provide some sort of free market influence by eliminating those more zealous members of their graduating classes soon after their commencement ceremonies should they decide to make manifest the portions of their curriculum we find most disagreeable outside the confines of their respective national borders.

I would probably disagree about diversity, but only in culture and society and not in school curriculum. I want my local community to be not only tolerant of diversity but affirming of it. I want my neighbors to be strong enough in their convictions to welcome a pluralism that may challenge those ideas at times. I do not, however, want any mandate upon local schools from a central authority thousands of miles away that they should teach one particular set of values over another. That is the job of families and communities - Hillary's village, in other words.

Let the schools teach math, science (real science), reading and writing and some kind of organized physical activity. And art and music, ffs. Let the strength of people's spiritual convictions be such that they can stand in the face of relatively value-neutral teaching of cold, hard facts and the skills necessary to make a living and be culturally literate in the modern world.

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Mug, I agree with your first paragraph entirely. I have no urge to change the Arab or the slavic culture or any other culture---nor do I want them to try to change mine. nor do I have any desire to Rescue their women from the heel of male oppression. If I want to study or enjoy some aspects of their life style I'll go over there and do so and while I am in their bailiwick will observe all of the actions of reverence and respect for their beliefs which I expect them to do when they are in mine. I am not an evangelist. I have been in most of the principle mosques of Islam and tried to observe the actions that would make me welcome there but I did not take away with me any craving for the inundation of the US by thousands of Islamic immigrants to promote "diversity" The first time I went to Saudi Arabia I had to surrender my passport to my Saudi "sponsor" who held it until I was ready to go to the airport and leave. If we had the same system here in the US it probably would have prevented the 9-11 disaster but it would have raised cries of "dfiscrimination". We are funny people here in America.
Not funny "ha--ha" but funny "peculiar".

The second paragraph I do not agree with. Today has made a goal and medal of "diversity". I feel no need for diversity in the sense that is used today. This has been the most successful nation since the Roman Empire in my view and I believe in dancin' with who brung me as the UT football coach used to say. I do agree that the schools should teach the three R's diligently and leave the instruction of morals and values to the family, the community and the church. Pluralism is not worth anything in and of itself in my book.

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oxsan


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Hell, I'm only talkin about recognizing the diversity that already exists here all around us and not feeling as though our own various cultural influences are dilluted by it, but are rather augmented by it and strengthened by the contrast. I'm not referring to Depression-era Panhandle society, but I would like people to not feel threatened by the differences of others.

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jesus, I sound like a liberal faggot. where did you go wrong?

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I should also point out here that if you knew what I knew you wouldn't argue with me.

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ah, it's a series then. this is part 2, cultural snobism, i suppose.

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No, it's about who gets to choose curriculum for local schools in Texas and why.

but [p]x3 again for the effort

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now now, mugtoe. i recall oxan agreeing with me on being a capitalistic snob in the first part of this wonderful series.

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You over reach Dogcow. I agreed with you about being a capitalist I did not agree with you about being a capitalist snob. And Mug I don't care if YOU want to adopt another set of values---you are an adult and can take any style you desire---just don't legislate that I have to do likewise or even try to convince me that it would be better for me to do likewise.

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oxsan


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it would be better for you to do likewise

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who said anything about adopting different values? I'm talking about coexisting with them, not assimilating.

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What if those values include your total subservience or annihilation?

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oxsan, you appear convinced that what you have is the best combination of an economic system and culture. you're also unwilling to consider that you might be wrong, that progress can be made, for instance, by diversifying. that's snobbism. embrace it.

i should clarify that i find the texan school curriculum topic entirely uninteresting. i'm talking about your general views on society.

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Odd, I didn't get that at all from the reading. What I read was that he thinks we have the best combination of those things right here FOR the people RIGHT HERE, and that is based upon eighty years of experience living RIGHT HERE. I also read, here and elsewhere, that he values the differences that other people in other places have where they live, and that he wouldn't think to change it or look down upon it. In fact, I read most of that into what he wrote in this particular blog. I would suggest that your own cultural snobbery is coloring your reading comprehension.

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but, mugtoe, would you not say that it is more likely that you, not me, is the one who would be biased in this case?

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not sure why that would be a certitude in this instance. I also think I can read my father fairly accurately. There is a pretty big difference between what I read into what he wrote and what it seems you were responding to.

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yes, well, i notice a certain gap between his thinking about the value of other societies and what he would be willing to allow in his own community. when you say it's great to have different cultures as long as they stay over there, what you're really saying is 'fuck them, what we have is better'.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by dogcow
oxsan, you appear convinced that what you have is the best combination of an economic system and culture. you're also unwilling to consider that you might be wrong, that progress can be made, for instance, by diversifying. that's snobbism. embrace it.

i should clarify that i find the texan school curriculum topic entirely uninteresting. i'm talking about your general views on society.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by dogcow
yes, well, i notice a certain gap between his thinking about the value of other societies and what he would be willing to allow in his own community. when you say it's great to have different cultures as long as they stay over there, what you're really saying is 'fuck them, what we have is better'.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by dogcow
yes, well, i notice a certain gap between his thinking about the value of other societies and what he would be willing to allow in his own community. when you say it's great to have different cultures as long as they stay over there, what you're really saying is 'fuck them, what we have is better'.

---

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Dogcow, you have a very warped concept of what I think about other cultures and how I get along with others in other countries. Let me say that until he died recently Erminio Cioccarrelli who lived in the valley of the Adda (the Valtellina) was perhaps the best friend I ever had in my life. He has visited me here in Texas at least eight or ten times and I have spent months at a time in his beautiful Valtellina. He was a wonderfully wise and talented man. Sarah and Efrem Cigonetti who lived near San Sirmione at the foot of Lake Garda were close and dear friends. John Y. T. Chiang (his Chinese name is Chiang Yang Tso) formerly of Taiwan was a close and personal friend who taught me how to negotiate with Chinese business men and he has visited at the farm and considered buying property in this area as a vacation retreat. Luiz Nogheira Vinha who lives in a suburb of Lisbon is a dear friend and corresponds from time to time and has visited once here. Jose Martinez Martinez and his beautiful wife is a young man of Madrid Spain that visited here twice and bought vast quantities of blue jeans to carry back to Spain. I am proud to call him a close friend. I have still hanging on my wall the hand scrawled certificate of my induction into the Gerzensee Village Choir of Gerzensss Switzerland where I starred in
a vocal presentation which only those who have heard me sing can marvel at. Beneath the induction paragraph is written "Wir sitzen hier am runden
Tisch und trinken bis er eckig ist" which I am sure you will recognize. I have similar friends in Saudi Arabia, Israel, Peru, England and Japan and less well known friends in a dozen other countries. One of the biggest benefits of my career was the capability of travelling all over the world first class and meeting people and absorbing their culture. And you know what---I enjoyed it terrifically and learned a lot and made a huge number of friends. Many of those I mentioned above are now dead---that is one of the disadvantages of being 80 but I sampled a goodly cross-section of the world and came to know and respect the citizens of a large segment of the world. But I envy the culture and value system of none of them as being more to my liking than my own values and culture and what I hope that my grandchildren emulate. One of my granchildren plans to retire in the Yorkshire Dales and I think that is terrific but I told him to be sure and check what the taxes would be. My father used to say "To each his own the old lady said as she kissed her favorite cow"

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oxsan


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