Registered: Jun 2007
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lulubrooks
Woman With A Camera

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I have comments and impressions, but I have to think about them and it's time to feed the dog.

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I just have a quick question.
Can I add content to the original blog post without editing? It's not necessary that I do, but I just assumed that when I made the second entry it would queue up. Thanks.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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i don't want to say it too, ignatz.

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Force yourself. I didn't post because I didn't expect criticism.

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well, you've got too many analogies just for the sake of it; randomly capitalised words don't belong there either; it's extremely incoherent; it's not spell checked; you write too much when it's unnecessary and too little when more would be better; where it's clever you push it too hard; for the love of god, format it properly.

i like some of the ideas but i had to push myself, hard, just to read the whole thing.

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Thank you.

I agree that much of the dialogue needs editing. No, I didn't spell-check. As for formatting, I have been advised that this is pretty standard for a reading script (along with the emphasis on capitalized direction).

Would it be presumptuous of me to ask you to list the examples of my excessive use of analogy? After a certain amount of re-reads, things just become blurry.

Last edited by lulubrooks on 08-07-2007 at 06:30 PM

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Registered: Apr 2005
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i honestly don't know anything about writing scripts, but if you're going to post it here, it may be a good idea to make it easier to read (just put it in a text editor and make it all lower case or some such; i'd like the line breaks removed too but that's probably just me).

re- analogies: i'm not going to read it again but, for instance, 'Like a celestial wave, ribbons of light roll through the night sky...' would sound better, to me, if it was just 'ribbons of light roll through the night sky...'.

but maybe mord or paint want to comment too, as they write a fair amount and their input would likely be more constructive than mine.

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If you read between the lines there, I think dogcow liked it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dogcow
i honestly don't know anything about writing scripts, but if you're going to post it here, it may be a good idea to make it easier to read (just put it in a text editor and make it all lower case or some such; i'd like the line breaks removed too but that's probably just me).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Trenchant_Troll
If you read between the lines there, I think dogcow liked it.

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no problem. mind you, i'm a big fan of minimalist writing. the thing with analogies is that it removes me one extra step further from whatever it is you're describing. i prefer to have it illustrated directly, like in the above example. so, unless it's an entirely awesome analogy that makes you all squirmy, like a worm on fishing hook, i'd rather not have it.

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Thanks, dogcow, you read my mind, the carpet of jewels was bugging me, as was the "abnormally lush" field. The only good analogy/metaphor/simile is one that hasn't been made before many times -- if you can't think of something uniquely descriptive, find another way to say it.

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Registered: Apr 2005
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ther wuz two mini werdz

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I liked it, although I share some of dogcow's concerns.

Here's an Academy style guide: linky

Download the PDF to examine format. Also read it, it explains a little about formatting.

Double spacing and so forth are pretty much standard. You don't need to capitalize direction - not even names in the direct - for a reading draft except in .. exceptional cases.

In any case, formatting a script in HTML markup is hard work. You could get away with a few CENTER tags and it will read a lot better.

As regards flowery description; it's ok if it does the job. The celestial wave/ribbons of light comment from dogcow and the mouse is on the money because it's tautology. Further, what does a celestial wave look like? I can at least envision ribbons of light.

As a general rule you are writing a script, not narrative fiction, so you need to be much more visual in your descriptions and much more direct if you are going to aim at a minute a page. Also, and this is a generalization, your reader is often more stupid than you - not your peers but the guy with the cigar who will hand over the money. They don't like to be made to feel that stupidity. The trick is to make the imagery on screen come alive. The occasional verbal flourish is ok. 'Puffs like a steam-engine' works for me because it's a nice visual simile.

Try to make the thing self contained. If you don't know what the crowns of upper and lower egypt are, you get no further information by naming them in the direction then having a character say what they are. Try changing Monsignor's description to something like: he wears a peculiar crown; a white segment at the front seated snugly into a tall, red, gold-rimmed headpiece from which protrudes a vulture.

So now the reader knows what a pschent looks like, then Quasifield can name it.

That could be applied throughout. External references are great in literature because it suggests you are well read and knowledgeable. In a film script, unless you are sure of your readership, it might just confuse the reader.

Or maybe not.

Structure:

Make the first scene with Al Capone longer. It goes by too fast for me and I want to see him in action - how does he humiliate? What does he do and say? If we spend more time with him, the revelation that he is being observed is more intriguing.

I didn't know where I was before you revealed they were inside the statue - I know that's the idea but it would be nice if you tease us more. Assert the confined space more, make references to the rain, I want at least to be forced to ask the question 'Where the hell are these people?'.

Tease out more visually the important moments. It's not enough, for me, to see that Al Capone spots the statue. Think a bit more in shots or sequences. Where is he when the doorbell rings? What's he doing? Does he stop? How does he spot the statue? Pull a curtain aside? Go over to a window to look out? Then, when he orders them to open fire where are they? Who are they? Have they opened the front door or are they firing through a window? Glass shatters? etc

This is a manipulative personal choice but if these people are about to be whisked away by a tornado, have it do more than fill a lull. I would have the gang ready to blast the belly of the statue - certain death for those inside - when the tornado snatches them away. Heightened tension.

Also, why not throw in a bit more tornado action earlier to foreshadow its appearance as a protagonist in that scene? Then it doesn't appear out of nowhere as it feels at the moment.

Final note: you appear to be writing a conceptually complicated story with magically realistic happenings and twisted humor. Don't make the mistake of allowing the content to influence your style. Another personal preference but the outlandish characters can handle themselves in their dialog; your descriptions and directions should be a window on this world, not part of it. Again, it's not literature, screenwriting is a very specific skillset and can seem retarded if you come from a literary background.

But I like it.

Take it or leave it, bear in mind William Goldman's vital knowledge: "Nobody knows anything."

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Agree with Jest. I'd like to see it.

Now make the characters live the consequences of the words to create a lasting impression.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ignatz mouse
Thanks, dogcow, you read my mind, the carpet of jewels was bugging me, as was the "abnormally lush" field. The only good analogy/metaphor/simile is one that hasn't been made before many times -- if you can't think of something uniquely descriptive, find another way to say it.

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Absolutely right.

quote:

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Originally posted by fubar
ther wuz two mini werdz

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Seems to be the consensus.

quote:

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Originally posted by TheInfiniteJest
I liked it, although I share some of dogcow's concerns.

Here's an Academy style guide: linky

Download the PDF to examine format. Also read it, it explains a little about formatting.

Double spacing and so forth are pretty much standard. You don't need to capitalize direction - not even names in the direct - for a reading draft except in .. exceptional cases.

In any case, formatting a script in HTML markup is hard work. You could get away with a few CENTER tags and it will read a lot better.

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Thank you for the link, Jest. Very good reference.

quote:

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As regards flowery description; it's ok if it does the job. The celestial wave/ribbons of light comment from dogcow and the mouse is on the money because it's tautology. Further, what does a celestial wave look like? I can at least envision ribbons of light.

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Yes, a bit redundant, AND considering the next descriptive line gives the concrete example.

quote:

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As a general rule you are writing a script, not narrative fiction, so you need to be much more visual in your descriptions and much more direct if you are going to aim at a minute a page.

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Agreed. I was a bit worried that the load of fx (yet minimal description) translated into far more than 1 minute per page and that what I did include, wasn't succinct.

quote:

---

Also, and this is a generalization, your reader is often more stupid than you - not your peers but the guy with the cigar who will hand over the money. They don't like to be made to feel that stupidity. The trick is to make the imagery on screen come alive. The occasional verbal flourish is ok. 'Puffs like a steam-engine' works for me because it's a nice visual simile.

Try to make the thing self contained. If you don't know what the crowns of upper and lower egypt are, you get no further information by naming them in the direction then having a character say what they are. Try changing Monsignor's description to something like: he wears a peculiar crown; a white segment at the front seated snugly into a tall, red, gold-rimmed headpiece from which protrudes a vulture.
So now the reader knows what a pschent looks like, then Quasifield can name it.
That could be applied throughout. External references are great in literature because it suggests you are well read and knowledgeable. In a film script, unless you are sure of your readership, it might just confuse the reader.

Or maybe not.

---

Yes, it's been hard for me to judge what references an audience may, or may not, *get*. I'll definitely change the Monsignor's description...and Quasifield's naming thereof, although I may need to keep some aspect of Quasi's descriptive passage as the syntax is a bit of his hallmark further in.

quote:

---

Structure:

Make the first scene with Al Capone longer. It goes by too fast for me and I want to see him in action - how does he humiliate? What does he do and say? If we spend more time with him, the revelation that he is being observed is more intriguing.

I didn't know where I was before you revealed they were inside the statue - I know that's the idea but it would be nice if you tease us more. Assert the confined space more, make references to the rain, I want at least to be forced to ask the question 'Where the hell are these people?'.

Tease out more visually the important moments. It's not enough, for me, to see that Al Capone spots the statue. Think a bit more in shots or sequences. Where is he when the doorbell rings? What's he doing? Does he stop? How does he spot the statue? Pull a curtain aside? Go over to a window to look out? Then, when he orders them to open fire where are they? Who are they? Have they opened the front door or are they firing through a window? Glass shatters? etc

This is a manipulative personal choice but if these people are about to be whisked away by a tornado, have it do more than fill a lull. I would have the gang ready to blast the belly of the statue - certain death for those inside - when the tornado snatches them away. Heightened tension.

---

All excellent formal things to address, exactly what I was hoping to hear from an objective reader. I can, absolutely, extend this scene, in fact, it was a much longer scene which I had edited down.

quote:

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Also, why not throw in a bit more tornado action earlier to foreshadow its appearance as a protagonist in that scene? Then it doesn't appear out of nowhere as it feels at the moment.

---

This should be no problem with a little shuffling of two locomotive/cyclone scenes which had followed the Pecos Al sequence.

quote:

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Final note: you appear to be writing a conceptually complicated story with magically realistic happenings and twisted humor. Don't make the mistake of allowing the content to influence your style. Another personal preference but the outlandish characters can handle themselves in their dialog; your descriptions and directions should be a window on this world, not part of it. Again, it's not literature, screenwriting is a very specific skillset and can seem retarded if you come from a literary background.

But I like it.

Take it or leave it, bear in mind William Goldman's vital knowledge: "Nobody knows anything."

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I've been trying to make the description/direction more sterile with each draft. I'm embarrassed to say I had passages even more hyperbolic than what's been presented here.
Thank you very much, Jest, for taking the time to forward such an indepth critique. I am indebted. Someone loan me some pernts, please?

quote:

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Originally posted by Coincidence
Agree with Jest. I'd like to see it.

Now make the characters live the consequences of the words to create a lasting impression.

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And THAT is my goal Thank you, Coincidence.
Thanks also, Ignatz Mouse and Fubar. I truly appreciate you guys taking the time to read my work and offering your opinions.

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