Registered: Jul 2000
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Racial Profilling is Good

Defending the Undefendable Part 5

OK.

1. Statistically, a greater percentage of blacks commit crimes then whites. Thus, if you meet a random black person and a random white person, it is more likely that the black person is a criminal. Jesse James once said "It saddens me that when I am walking down the street at night and hear footsteps behind me, that I am relieved to see that it is a white man". Or something like that anyway. Point is, say you are a highway patrol cop, and you see a car full of black guys and a car full of white guys. It is more likely that you will find drugs or illegal activities of some sort in the car with the black people. That is just a fact.

2. I also fully realize that people will contest that by saying "the statistics are flawed because the reason that more black people are found guilty of crimes then white people (percentage wise) is that cops harass blacks and leave the whites alone". That is a valid point, but I don't think it is the case. Look at it from a common sense standpoint, and answer honestly. Are you more comfortable at a party full of only black people or a party full of only white people? Or rather, at which are you more nervous? At which would you be more worried of bad shit going down? Besides, the statistics still bear that out, and if you were a cop and were honestly wanting to protect the community, wouldn't it make more sense to go off of the statistics and the common sense then some sense of fairness?

3. I also fully realize that the reason that more blacks commit crimes then whites is because they have been oppressed, that they are forced into poverty, live in ghettos, whatever. For one, that further proves my point about blacks committing more crimes. But secondly, it is not the police officer's job to determine motive, and even with that motive, no court in the world would fail to convict a drug dealer simply because his community is so fraught with racism and whatever that the only way he can make a living is pushing crack.

4. I do not support the police breaking laws. But what racial profiling entails is not cops busting into a guy's house without a warrant because the guy is black, it means that if you see a car full of black guys make a mildly illegal move (swerves a bit, brake light out, whatever), that you pull them over and then try and find evidence of other crimes (can I search the car?), whereas with a car full of whites doing the same thing the cop would be less likely to bother pulling them over. Or, the definition of "just cause" is stretched a bit. Whatever. So I am not advocating the cops break laws, but rather, apply them to better serve their time and the community.

5. So, what is the best way to expend your time, when your time is to be spent trying to catch criminals and stop crimes? The best way to do it is to go after the people more likely to be committing crimes.

6. Also, a police officer's sole job is to catch criminals, stop crimes, protect the community. Fairness doesn't really factor into it at all, or at least it shouldn't, so long as no laws are being broken on the part of the police officers. If a police officer is catching criminals this way, and catching more criminals through profiling then without it, where is the harm?

Something like 75% of prison inmates in most major cities are blacks. Some point that out as being a fact that proves the police and the judicial system are racist. Isn't it equally likely that it proves a higher incidence of criminal activity in the black community then in the white?

I put it to you.

[BTW, I realize this is not great, but I am still trying to knock myself back into forum-mode, and the only way to do it is doing shit like this]

[This message has been edited by Paint CHiPs (edited 12-29-2000).]

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Registered: Dec 2000
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I think racial profiling is bullshit. By being overly suspicious of blacks, they're giving whites the oppurtunity to commit more serious crimes because they know they are more likely to get away with it. It enfuriates me how a cop can see two cars, one with blacks and one with whites, pull the same manuever, and only pull over the blacks based on their skin color. Don't they ever think that white people commit crimes too? How many black serial killers have we had in comparison to whites?

Another problem is that I think that the police are only examining crimes that tend to be linked with poverty, such as homicide, drugs, prostitution, etc. What about crimes that occur mostly in upper class economies, such as fraud, embezzlement, and other "business and government crimes?" (don't feel like making a list).

It just pisses me off...the belief that white people can do no wrong in the eyes of the law...if you look throughout history, the most evil and villainous (however it's spelled) criminals were all white.

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"You did it, Nibbles! Now, nibble through my ball sack!" - Principal Skinner.

[This message has been edited by Rabble Rouser (edited 12-29-2000).]

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hark! what is that sound? oh, its only the sound of my respect for you shattering.

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We spoke our minds too clearly. We assumed fundamental rights were inherent not as pawns but humanz. I do not require a gauge for freedoms of speech because I never asked to be a citizen. I never have and never will pledge allegiance.

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enter the contest!

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by ItsJustLogan:
hark! what is that sound? oh, its only the sound of my respect for you shattering.

---

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no, i can't read.

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We spoke our minds too clearly. We assumed fundamental rights were inherent not as pawns but humanz. I do not require a gauge for freedoms of speech because I never asked to be a citizen. I never have and never will pledge allegiance.

http://pub31.ezboard.com/bforbiddencompounds

www.flutypook.com
enter the contest!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
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In the Republican debates during the primaries the question of racial profiling came up. They asked John McCain, of course he didn't support profiling, it was a horrible thing. They asked George W. Bush and he also said that profiling shouldn't be used. Then they asked Alan Keyes, the lone black candidate and he said that not only did he understand racial profiling, he supports it. He said that if statistics show that a certain group is commiting more crime in a certain area then it is not a prejudice, it is a fact. Asking police officers to ignore that data is asking them to ignore facts and he was against that. They asked him if he would be outraged if he was pulled over because he was black. He said that sure he would be outraged, but he would be outraged at black youths who rob and steal and put the black community in the position where profiling is warranted.

I liked Alan Keyes because he never tried to couch his views to please anybody. I voted for him in the primaries.

DM

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There is no bunny I promise/It's ugly, it's stupid/Don't be the same

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quote:

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Originally posted by ItsJustLogan:
hark! what is that sound? oh, its only the sound of my respect for you shattering.

---

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Registered: Aug 2000
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this will be replied to tomorow, i have to work.

------------------------
We spoke our minds too clearly. We assumed fundamental rights were inherent not as pawns but humanz. I do not require a gauge for freedoms of speech because I never asked to be a citizen. I never have and never will pledge allegiance.

http://pub31.ezboard.com/bforbiddencompounds

www.flutypook.com
enter the contest!

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South Carolina Republican Debate
February 15, 2000

...
KING: All right, hopscotching to some other things, what do you think about racial profiling, Governor?

BUSH: Against it.

KING: And if you were president, you would sign that executive order that would...

BUSH: I would work with state police authorities to make sure they don't racially profile.

MCCAIN: Of course, of course, but let me point out now that we had some people come across our -- or try to come across our border -- that were terrorists. If you can specifically identify a suspect, and have the drawing that -- the description then clearly, you will want to stop people that fit that description.

KING: But you don't stop everyone with a turban or a...

MCCAIN: But you don't stop -- you don't stop everybody just for any reason. But let's be clear. The security of our borders was nearly violated a short time ago, and we have to be far more vigilant than we've been in the past.

KING: Alan?

KEYES: I know everybody thinks that this doing some favor to a racial group, but if our police and enforcement people have the experience that a given crime is disproportionately being committed by folks from a given ethnic group, we are now going to pass a law that says you can't notice that?

I -- I...

KING: But they haven't done the crime yet.

KEYES: Excuse me, no, no. All I'm saying is we're going to pass a law and we're going to enforce a law that says that we can't notice the characteristics of individuals who commit crimes and develop profiles to help folks pursue the solving of crimes based on our experience.

Experience by the way is not prejudice. Prejudice is an opinion you form apart from experience, prior to experience. An opinion formed based on experience is not prejudice. It is judgment. And I think our law enforcement officers ought to be able to...

KING: You wouldn't mind being stopped by a car if there was a high prevalence of...

KEYES: You know the person I would blame for that? If there are black folks out there disproportionately committing certain kinds of crime, my parents raised me to know that I represent the race in every thing I do. And I wish that everybody would take that attitude and stop committing crimes and doing things that bring a bad reputation on to people.

KING: But if you were stopped...

KEYES: That's what I resent.

KING: ... if you were stopped you wouldn't be angry?

KEYES: I just told you who I would be angry at.
...

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quote:

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Originally posted by ItsJustLogan:
hark! what is that sound? oh, its only the sound of my respect for you shattering.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rabble Rouser:
How many black serial killers have we had in comparison to whites?

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Isn't it equally likely that it proves a higher incidence of criminal activity in the black community then in the white?

I do agree with your entire post paint. There comes a time when common sense must over ride political correctness.

I also have read much on criminal behavior and from information from a few different books and studies; it seems to me that when white people are criminals they are to a higher degree. Although seem to commit crimes less as far as %. Some of course do petty crimes, but white criminals have a knack for deep sickness when they cannot function normally in a society they have been adapting to for hundreds of years.
Taking that, a woman who is a murderer seems to be more ruthless than a man who is a murderer.
Women have been the nurturers through out history, during most of the evolution, and seem to be more ruthless when they murder.
Now we can get in to reasons all we want, but many who suffer at the hands of life do just fine.

Blaming something makes us feel better, but it is in no way a constant that we can rely on to tell us why.

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My opinion:

i agree with it. (ok everyone post how you have no respect for me now)

if dalmations are more likely to bite your kids face off than a retriever which would you buy? how many people wouldnt consider buying a firestone tire? granted human rights and buying a tire are on different playing fields.

we all profile every day, but when it comes to skin color most people automatically assume the preformatted politically correct point of view for fear of being labeled a racist.

like quoted above by devilmoon i believe, facts are facts. blacks are more likely to be criminals, thats not a racist statement, its a fact.

i dont know to what extent i support this, obviously someone should never be harassed simply because of skin color. i think cops use more of a 'criminal profiling' approach than 'racial profiling'. its easy to pick out potential hoodlums, i doubt black doctors and lawyers are pulled over as suspected crack dealers too often.

also i think people forget that the legal system is not run by white people, there are black cops/lawyers/judges etc. and instead of pointing fingers people should be "outraged at black youths who rob and steal and put the black community in the position where profiling is warranted."

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BIGOT!

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Paint, your whole post is nothing more than an advocation for stereotyping. Points 4 and 5 are quite frankly both the most flawed, and also the most stereotype endorsing. When you get out into the real world statistics are worthless. Sure, they can show a general trend, but general trends also seem to be based around specific conditions of the time. The general trend of a 1950's eating attitude was "if it tastes good, eat it," whereas a 1990's attitude is "if it has even the slightest grain of salt or gram of fat, send it back because it will cause hypertension, a stroke, and a heart attack." If the surgeon general, or medical head-guy-thing came and said, "Hey, you know what? We've got that whole eating thing all wrong," wouldn't that cause a change in the trend? Yes, it would.

Now, what is the general trend in crime: crimes are committed by minorities. Isn't it also true that a white man is just as likely to rob a store as a black man is? Everyone is on an equal playing field, but some people receive a little push here, a shove there, and an outright tug every now and then. It isn't a group that commits a crime, it's a person. Why punish a group for the mistakes of a handful of its representitives? Because it will make all the white people feel more secure in their plush little suburban communities feel better knowing that some big, bad nigger, or spick, or Iranian won't be coming to steal there twenty thousand dollar car because he's sitting in jail because of racial profiling.

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"Your experiment this week, Joel, is called Pod People. It has nothing to do with pods, it has nothing to do with people, it has everything to do with *hurting*." - Dr. Forrester, MST3K

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I'd sell my soul, my self-esteem a dollar at a time for one kiss, one chance, one taste of you, my Magdalena.

Follow for now, and follow for this, because everybody follows for nothing at all.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rabble Rouser:

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quote:

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Originally posted by SocialParasite:
Because it will make all the white people feel more secure in their plush little suburban communities feel better knowing that some big, bad nigger, or spick, or Iranian won't be coming to steal there twenty thousand dollar car because he's sitting in jail because of racial profiling.

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Logic is an emotionless creature.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: NH
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quote:

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The reason that there is no black Hitler is because no black person has ever had enough power to do something like that. But take a look at say African history (or hell, even Rwanda and other African hotspots today). Blacks are just as capable of that level as villainry as whites are.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dingle:

now THAT was stereotyping

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Defending the Undefendable Part 5

OK.

1. Statistically, a greater percentage of blacks commit crimes then whites. Thus, if you meet a random black person and a random white person, it is more likely that the black person is a criminal. Jesse James once said "It saddens me that when I am walking down the street at night and hear footsteps behind me, that I am relieved to see that it is a white man". Or something like that anyway. Point is, say you are a highway patrol cop, and you see a car full of black guys and a car full of white guys. It is more likely that you will find drugs or illegal activities of some sort in the car with the black people. That is just a fact.
You are taking what he said, out of context, btw There are NO statisics that show of what you are talking about. Any such 'facts' of yours, that you can't back up should be thrown out all together. But I shall still argue them. I will infact use the arguement that since more blacks are searched than whites, that any statisics that you would find, should also be thrown out.
2. I also fully realize that people will contest that by saying "the statistics are flawed because the reason that more black people are found guilty of crimes then white people (percentage wise) is that cops harass blacks and leave the whites alone". That is a valid point, but I don't think it is the case. Look at it from a common sense standpoint, and answer honestly. Are you more comfortable at a party full of only black people or a party full of only white people? Or rather, at which are you more nervous? At which would you be more worried of bad shit going down? Besides, the statistics still bear that out, and if you were a cop and were honestly wanting to protect the community, wouldn't it make more sense to go off of the statistics and the common sense then some sense of fairness?
You did not argue your point that you don't think it makes sense. You left it floating there as a statement. If you were black, and at a party of whites, would you feel more comfortable with a party of blacks? YES YOU WOULD! It has nothing to do with crime.
3. I also fully realize that the reason that more blacks commit crimes then whites is because they have been oppressed, that they are forced into poverty, live in ghettos, whatever. For one, that further proves my point about blacks committing more crimes. But secondly, it is not the police officer's job to determine motive, and even with that motive, no court in the world would fail to convict a drug dealer simply because his community is so fraught with racism and whatever that the only way he can make a living is pushing crack.
I guess we better start pulling over people because they have a shitty car, because that means they have a good chance of being poor. Poor people comit crimes, right paint??
4. I do not support the police breaking laws. But what racial profiling entails is not cops busting into a guy's house without a warrant because the guy is black, it means that if you see a car full of black guys make a mildly illegal move (swerves a bit, brake light out, whatever), that you pull them over and then try and find evidence of other crimes (can I search the car?), whereas with a car full of whites doing the same thing the cop would be less likely to bother pulling them over. Or, the definition of "just cause" is stretched a bit. Whatever. So I am not advocating the cops break laws, but rather, apply them to better serve their time and the community.
Again, nothing to do with the matter on hand. You are defending racial profilling with your jabbering.
5. So, what is the best way to expend your time, when your time is to be spent trying to catch criminals and stop crimes? The best way to do it is to go after the people more likely to be committing crimes.
And if freedom is bended, twisted, and stepped on, who cares?
6. Also, a police officer's sole job is to catch criminals, stop crimes, protect the community. Fairness doesn't really f