Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10152

That ain't cool....

The original post by JonCarl got hosed (you can still find it here, trying to respond to it doesn’t bring it back): http://www.asylumwhores.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005604.html

So I’m recreating the posts here and the thread can continue …

JonCarl

Well where to start, I first off want to say that I'm not going to say anything personal about anybody, and also that I posted using my real name, and my real e-mail address is jcarl@wtci.net or graves@fansubtrader.com. So that if you feel you need to be a big person and call me all sorts of nice names and such, you can do it to me at home too.


Anyway, I just wanted to say that I've just finished reading thru all the Mr. Magoo posts, and continuation etc. And wanted to just say that what Wonderaz said to Chantrea just was not cool. Being called an old man, or jackass is just your plain old childish name-calling or "flaming." Now dont get me wrong it was done on both sides, yours and Chantrea's and a couple others. I'm not defending that at all, and normally from what I've seen that is par for the course here on the forum.

I think what wonderaz said to Chantrea went a little bit further, it got down to a real personal level, attacking someone if they have personal problems, or if they have to take medication or whatever is just wrong.

This is the internet and I know it gives us some freedom, mostly the freedom to be incosiderate, nasty people to one another. It happens here, I've seen it happen elsewhere. When I get onto the net I try to treat everyone like I was talking to them on the phone, sure its nice to crack jokes once in awile and all that but I never stoop so low or lack the intelligence to attack someone using personal diffrences.

As for Chantrea, I wish you all had the chance to get to know her in RL, I've known her for the last five or so years and she is the sweetest person I have yet to meet. Sure like all of us she may have some personal problems, I can relate to that cause alot of the things that Chantrea has to deal with, I also have to deal with on a personal level. One of the things I like about Chantrea is that personally she is very brave, it may not seem that way to you or even to Chantrea, but I know it, cause I've been there. I speak this as a friend and as myself.

So basically what I'm saying is that to attack someone's personal nature is pretty lowdown. Anyway I figure I'll have a lot of people flaming me cause I'm sticking up for Chantrea, but I think friends mean much more than a bunch of bits on a computer screen. And I think that some of you folk that consider yourself Chantrea's friend might take that to mind, since I think only Caffeine really stood up for her before now.

Respectfully Submitted,
Jon Carl

-- Flame all you want, I'll just ignore you.

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Spooky

Should'nt this be in the Mr Magoo thread?

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ItsJustLogan

i agree. flaming is fun and all, but reaching into something someone has had the strength to share with an online community like that is simply above and beyond the boundry of good taste and fun. i'm not taking sides, and i think the large portion of you who participated in that fiasco should be ashamed of yourselves. if not all of you.

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Sp00ky

i missed all the flaming fun

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Princess_Heather

I agree... It is easier in a forum to get carried away and ruthlessly attack a person than it is in real life, face to face. That is why it happens so often. You can't get your ass kicked here and when you're sick of the game you can just close the window and get on with your actual life. I admire those who have the maturity and integrity to treat others as if they were right there and how they would like to be treated.

I don't mind being attacked for things that I say and the way that I act in a particular thread. I feel that is all fair game. No matter what position I take, there's bound to be a hand full of people who disagree. The thing that does irritate me, is when someone runs out of things to attack and digs around to find other things to bring up, completely unrelated to the topic/argument. I'm not a big fan of put downs and name calling either... my preferred method of flaming is the "You're wrong, I'm right, here's why, so there" approach.

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 1800

Cool - thanks I guess.

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"I want to be the Girl with the most cake..." .*ME*.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Posts: 19111

I won't flame you for that post and I doubt anyone else will either.
Maybe it was a little low but it was not unprovoked plus she was warned that she was going somewhere that she didn't want to go.
You only read those posts, not the ones where she was attacking other people for no good reason other that they were "newbies". She admires one of our posters for their flaming abilities and has said how she wants to be able to flame like her. She basically has tried to enter an arena that she doesn't belong in and got slammed because she can't handle it.
You may consider her name calling to be just childish and meaningless flames but then they weren't directed at you and they WERE personal and she meant them to be. So she got personal flames back. She can be nasty but can't take nasty, huh? Maybe she shouldn't be on the internet then.
Where did the flames come from? Did I dig up some deep dark secret that no one was to know about? No, it was public information, posted in the forum. Not vicious lies or rumors. Just a known fact thrown back in her face as she threw a personal flame at me. Did I cross a line? Good question. What is the line? I wasn't aware of one. Other than exposing personal information that was meant to be private which I did not do, what is the line?

Here is the deal. I was upset over the fact that I have seen way too much flaming of people new to this forum. Most coming over from SPF because they were sick of that very shit over there (just like a lot of people here did in the beginning). So they come in here and get it. This site does not have the incredible amount of unique posters that Stile does where he can replace the newbies that are run off over there. New blood is very important to this site and I was/am getting sick and fucking tired of the ganging up on people that come in here, particularly from SPF. There is no need for it, if the regs (most came from SPF) want to act like that then they should haul their asses over there where that sort of bullshit is going on.
The name Asylum means just that, an asylum from that shit. So, yeah, I was pissed and I wanted to get that point across and was pointing out the people that were doing it. Instead of being able to get my point across, I have Chantrea coming at me with her bullshit about how she was a "nice girl" and never flamed anyone other than the comments she made to Heather who she seemed to think deserved them. I could go dig up quite a few posts by her where she has flamed a number of people for no good reason (CC is a classic example) both here and in SPF and although not well done, they were nasty and personal. And unnecessary.
Point is, I would have been very happy to let it go with her and just get my point across which did include her participation. But that didn't happen. She got personal, was warned not to go there and kept it up. She was warned again and I even tried to steer it back to the point but she kept up with the bullshit denials and the personal comments.
Why did I bother to warn her? I am a nasty fucking flamer. There are quite a few in here that remember that from the old SPF days. I don't consider a serious flame war to be calling each other shithead and making references to sexual habits, that is just fucking around and is quite obvious when it is happening. It is a fight between two people on equal ground, the internet. Gender, size, martial arts, personal weaponry, age, none of that matters. All you have is letters on a screen, both equal. She threw letters at me, I threw letters back. Yet my letters were just awful! Imagine some person who you will never meet and who is technically meaningless in your real life actuall bringing up something that you said a while back in the same forum and using it as a flame!!!! Why I am sure that just about everyone would be just devastated and it could possibly ruin their whole life!!! Come on!!! Big fucking deal!
Chantrea, I know you are reading this. For what it is worth, I apologize if you are taking it so hard. I would like for you to realize that it isn't so fun being on the receiving end of a personal flame. Maybe you will think twice before you attack someone for little or no reason. I would like to say that I will not flame you like that again dispite the fact that while I am typing this, you are on your cam showing used tampons with 'eat this' signs directed to me. Why don't you quit? Go back to being the nice person you claim to be instead of perpetuating the reason you got flamed.

Gravestone, I appreciate your loyalty to your friend and respect you and your post. I did react out of anger that was fueled by a much larger situation than her attacks on me.
You know how hard it is trying to make a site like this and it is doubly hard when you feel that all the efforts you are making are being scuttled by the some of the very people you are doing it for. We (the admins) have been busting our asses to give everyone the best site that we can. Dispite this, a few of us find ourselves as the target of people in here for, quite often, the lamest reasons. A good example, we put up banners in an attempt to get a little revenue to further expand the site and pay for some of the bills. What do we get out of our "loyal" posters? An impression ratio that is 18 fucking percent of the standard. Yeah, I got angry, it is frustrating as hell when you build a playground and you get players that just shit in the sandbox and curse you for not cleaning it fast enough.
But... I let that take me to a level that is normally beneath me. I will again offer a sincere apology to you and Chantrea.

Heather, I admire your stepping up and being so gracious. I understand what you are saying. It does show that you are the sort of person that we want in here.
I just have a well developed mean streak I guess.

Caffeine, bite me.



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Don't argue with me.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: MA
Posts: 2728

I've waited awhile to respond to any of this. I'm first going to say, I thought P_H was attacking absolut. I can & have admitted when I was wrong. ChikChillin is now a dear friend of mine, and I love her to pieces. P_H has gotten on my nerves, and yes, I was too quick to respond. I should have ignored it & not said anything. But I didn't, and I can't change that now. I do apologize to you, Heather.

When I feel I am being singled out, and attacked, I am going to stick up for myself - always. I refuse to let someone, who knows not a damned thing about me in reality, put me down. To those of you who think I asked for what was said to me, I'd just like to take the time to say in the immortal words of Emerald "that makes me very sad". I cannot believe it is acceptable, and tolerated for a moderator/administrator to verbally attack a member and put them down with personal information. And to threaten me on top of that?

I am not even going to bother responding to his post to me. It is pure trash. What makes me sad is I genuinely thought more people would be appalled at what he said.

Posting here was supposed to be a release of stress for me, a place to have fun. I can be a little shit at times, who can't? Does that mean I should have expected or deserved what I received? I hope you don't think so.

I hope you are happy though, wonderaz. I do hope you accomplished what you wanted in saying what you did. I hope you feel good about yourself. I'm sure you do though.

For any of you who did not see what he said to me, before he closed the thread. Here it is, for the last time.

quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz:

You are not right about anything, you pathetic little waste of sperm. You say you are nice to your friends but the truth is you don't have any, do you? You are a fucking introverted mental case who is trapped at home beause you haven't the guts to go out into the real world and meet people face to face with out eating a handful of whatever your shrink has you on, right?
You think that you have friends in here? All you did was come in here and buy a few people with your ripped off bullshit cartoon porn.
You talk about reaching? What the fuck do you need to bring you the fact that I am old school or a mod for? I didn't mention that or use it against you. I would say Fuck you but that could be construed as pedophilia as you are nothing but a child , a little insecure loser who thinks that she can be someone by putting up this pathetic facade you show in here.
Go play with your little collection of stolen anime or sit in chat licking the boys.
Be sure to let me know if you need anything in here, I will thoroughly enjoy telling you to piss off.
Keep giving me shit and I might have to consider the implications of having your minor ass in here posting pirated porn (there, you brought up my mod status, deal with that).

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Delaware
Posts: 5709

Well said wonderaz. I'm am proud to know you.

Now, let's get back to normal, or as normal as we can be. We need to start welcoming new posters and treating them in the same way we would like to be treated.

It also wouldn't hurt to click on the banners and sign up for some of the programs.
No bullshit. Without the revenue from those banners, this site will never be able to grow to it's full potential. Sit back and really look at all of the hard work that has already gone into making it what it is. Then think about what it can be.

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=^..^=

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joeycat:
Well said wonderaz. I'm am proud to know you.

Now, let's get back to normal, or as normal as we can be. We need to start welcoming new posters and treating them in the same way we would like to be treated.

It also wouldn't hurt to click on the banners and sign up for some of the programs.
No bullshit. Without the revenue from those banners, this site will never be able to grow to it's full potential. Sit back and really look at all of the hard work that has already gone into making it what it is. Then think about what it can be.

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Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 2327

Unfortunately, through the greater part of this I was sick, and cut off from my broadband connection, so I am catching up a little late.

Wonderaz, fact is that you were wrong here. There is flaming, petty arguing, which is ok; its normal, it happens often. You took it a step further.

First you jumped in, and tried to initate your little flame war. You made the first major move. You ARE the agrressor.

Then you pried for the most personal and damaging information about her that you could find, and then threw it at her. That is a very horrible... and is, in fact, the lowest fucking thing I've ever seen. You have no shame nor sense of honor.

As an administrator here, you must take a higher responsibility. I would think it would be your job to prevent such actions, rather that partaking in them, and encouraging them yourself.

Remember what Spider-Man always said, "With power comes responsibility."

You obviously have no dignity, as you call Chantrea a little girl, and still attack her so horribly. I'm sure you truely do think of her as a little inferior girl, and the fact that you had the gall to say what you did despite even that, sickens me.

You say you offer an apollogy? I don't see any apollogies there. All I see are Bill Clintonesque dodgings of taking responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Maybe you didn't realize you would have to do that.

You also mention that you're pissed off about people ganging up on new people migrating from SPF. You fail to mention that it isn't all people, and those who are expedited bring it upon themselves, being problem posters just coming over here to raise a ruckus.

"We" may need new people. but we do not need rotten apples, for they spoil the bunch (this situation being a PERFECT example.)
Also remember that while you need an influx of new people, you ALSO need to keep the people you have.

Wonderaz, I almost feel sorry for you. You have shot yourself in the foot so to say. Through this you have lost an incredible amount of credibility and respect, as well as a fair share of people who would have considered you a friend I'm sure (I know this is true with myself.)

You said you would have been glad to drop it all, obviously that was not the case. You could have been the bigger man and let it all go, not responding and letting it die.
You didn't, and it is no one's fault but your own.

I don't blame Chantrea for fighting back... in fact its perfectly natural. Animals will always fight back if cornered and threatened, and we aren't so far from animals as we would like to think we are. Unfortunately... she was alone in this it seems.

I can just hope that you will take more responsibility in the future wonder, and consider the consequences of your actions before making them.

Also, for anyone who would say that the only reason I'm defending Chantrea is because I love her, that is only partially true. I will stand by my love til through anything, til the end, such is love. What was done was very very horrible, and no person here should ever be abused, assaulted, and threatened in such a manner, and I refuse to just stand by and not say or do anything in the presence of such injustices, regardless of whom the recipiant is.

That's about it...

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©RandomnothinG®
My love, eternal, is yours, my dearest Kristin.

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Location: NH
Posts: 6086

I never play in these threads, but here ya go.

First, I like wonder and Chantrea. Or I should say I like to read what you both offer. I dont know either one of you, really. I am more familiar with wonder because I have read his offerings on the SPF since before the Asylum was even a concept. Always have respected him and enjoyed what he had to say. Chantrea was welcomed here with no qualms, as everyone should be.

You got a good old-fashioned SPF flame, Chantrea. Using public information from a public board. So it was a mod so what? It went a little over the line but so what? You think wonder would have been the only one to do it if pushed? Certain names pop into my head.

I will now add that these good old-fashioned SPF flames as it were always annoyed me. I was glad to get away from that mentality.

An apology was offered. An accepptance is usually a gracious way to respond.

Then we can all forget about these threads and move on to the real target: Mr. Magoo

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Elysian Fields, TX, USA
Posts: 2618

wha?

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allllllllrighty then...

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 4101

kodama!!!

*wishes he had a kodama doll*

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We spoke our minds too clearly. We assumed fundamental rights were inherent not as pawns but humans. I do not require a gauge for freedoms of speech because I never asked to be a citizen. I never have and never will pledge allegiance.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dead_Inside:
I never play in these threads, but here ya go.

First, I like wonder and Chantrea. Or I should say I like to read what you both offer. I dont know either one of you, really. I am more familiar with wonder because I have read his offerings on the SPF since before the Asylum was even a concept. Always have respected him and enjoyed what he had to say. Chantrea was welcomed here with no qualms, as everyone should be.

You got a good old-fashioned SPF flame, Chantrea. Using public information from a public board. So it was a mod so what? It went a little over the line but so what? You think wonder would have been the only one to do it if pushed? Certain names pop into my head.

I will now add that these good old-fashioned SPF flames as it were always annoyed me. I was glad to get away from that mentality.

An apology was offered. An accepptance is usually a gracious way to respond.

Then we can all forget about these threads and move on to the real target: Mr. Magoo

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 6086

Bullshit, skape.

I saw a sincere apology.

You never saw worse flames on the SPF? Come on. You were there before me and I saw much worse. Hell Ive seen stuff about your life posted and thrown right back at you. No, dont ask me for specifics. It was many months ago. Tell me it hasnt happened.

Let it go.

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Location: MA
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quote:

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Originally posted by Dead_Inside:

An apology was offered. An accepptance is usually a gracious way to respond.

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A few more comments.

First, it was a pad, wonder. Not a tampon.

Second, I am not a minor.

Third, if you want me to accept an "apology" from someone who hasn't done so in private first, and who I do not believe to be genuine. You are to be sadly disappointed.

Fourth, there is a reason I never posted at the SPF. That was pure trash, and in extremely poor taste. Next time I post anything, I'll have to remember some jackass can dig it up, and use it against me.

Lastly, if he EVER talks to me in that manner again, and if he EVER threatens me again, you can bet your ass you will no longer hear from me. There are a great deal of people I care about here, but I refuse to stay in an environment where this behavior is tolerated, accepted, and the norm.

PS: Perhaps you should get on some Paxil wonder. Looks like you are a very unhappy person. Then we can be mental cases together!

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Nothing beautiful can last forever...

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You know, I am kind of at odds here about what tone to take with my reply. Part of me wants to flame Chantrea and SkapeGoat to kingdom cum, part of me wants to be gracious. And I know I am not really involved, but I have a few things I want to say anyway.

A few general things.

Firstly, I don't really think it is fair to single out Chantrea about the Princess Heather thing. In fact, right off the bat, it was morgana and Princess Chelle who were bothering me with their unfounded hissy fits (yeah, I said it ). But Chantrea was the one who chose to keep it up for 5 pages, and she was also the one to target wonderaz. Yeah, I said that too.

What thread have you been reading, SkapeGoat?

"For someone with 100 flaming points, you sure are quick to jump to the rescue to anyone being flamed. Plus, she's not really new here. She's been infecting us for a month or so now.

I am usually a very nice girl. I can be a bitch, and damnit, I will be when I feel someone is deserving"

Again, I don't think Chantrea was being as bad in that first thread as some others were, but she was certainly still doing it (being mean to new people seemingly just for the sake of it). And it isn't the first time either. That is what I took issue with though, just the general attitude that new people must suck and so they should be fucked with at every opportunity. In the thread in question, that is all that wonder pointed out, he made general comments about how people here are acting like people in SPF. Chantrea, for whatever reason, (probably because she knows in the back of her mind that she is as guilty of it as anybody else) chose to take it personally and responded that way. I agree that wonder's post was really fucking harsh, probably more then it needed to be, but I don't think that absolves Chantrea of anything. She was guilty of what wonder's general comments were about, she chose to make is specific with him, she got flamed out of her fucking boots for it. Where is the foul?

I don't quite understand why she is trying to paint herself as some sort of martyr here. IMO, she got what she deserved. She was conducting flame wars against almost every new female who showed up (or at least falling in line everytime somebody else did it), and then she cries foul when a regular flames her in response? WTF?

You know the only reason why wonder's particular flame bothered you so much?

Because it was a good one.

I don't flame people for any other reason then stupidity. Pure and simple. I don't do it for the sake of it, I don't do it to be mean (usually), and I don't do it based on status or anything. Show me where wonderaz was A: wrong, or B: being stupid. In any of these threads. Now defend to me why Chantrea was showing intelligence and grace. Because wonder was harsher then he probably needed to be means nothing to me. That's the way it goes. The only two people I think who have made any rational sense during this whole debacle are wonderaz and DevilMoon.

Oh, and this part of Chantrea's post really got me.

"I cannot believe it is acceptable, and tolerated for a moderator/administrator to verbally attack a member and put them down with personal information. And to threaten me on top of that?"

I am so sick of that shit.

That for some reason the mods/admins can't speak their mind without somebody whining "foul" about it. How wonderaz and myself can post more on this board then ANYBODY else, and yet when it comes to disagreements over the behavior of the memebers, it is some how wrong of us to give our opinions. It is "wrong" of me to verbally attack somebody here? Fucking grow up.

As far as it being personal information goes, I don't think if it was at all personal wonderaz would have known about it. Fuck, I knew about it, and I don't think I have ever spoken a single private word with Chantrea. Again, I think he went too far, but I say that only according to my personal tastes, not according to some bullshit imaginary standards that he has to be held to.

Besides, he even admitted he probably shouldn't have said it. But you are not willing to accept it. Sure, you can say things like "I can't take that back now, Princess Heather, I am sorry." But when wonder gracefully apologizes and admits he went too far, it is all "shit that I am not going to even grace with a reply".

And you DON'T think there is a double standard?

Bullshit.

Summary. I think wonder went too far in flaming Chantrea, but I do not think it was unwarranted or an abuse of power. He was the one who started just making generalizations about how people here act towards new people, and Chantrea was the one who decided to take it to him.

And in all this, his original points were still RIGHT.

SkapeGoat is right, it is not all people who treat new people with hostility. But there is a certain segment (morgana, missphinx, Chantrea, tack, Caffiene) who do. For the most part, people are gracious about new members. But not everybody acts that way. Chantrea, as much as you want to play the martyr here, everytime I have seen you interacting with a new person on this board in the last two months, it is you being hostile or, at best, passive agressive to them. I can say the same for about 5 or 6 other forum members here. And it makes me sick, not just from you, but from anybody. I don't want this to be some sort of an exclusive club, I enjoy new perspectives and ideas, new silliness, whatever. And it really gets me when people run off all the new people due to some bullshit sense of status.

quote:

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Originally posted by SkapeGoat:
First you jumped in, and tried to initate your little flame war. You made the first major move. You ARE the agrressor.

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Location: NH
Posts: 6086

quote:

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Originally posted by Chantrea:
PS: Perhaps you should get on some Paxil wonder. Looks like you are a very unhappy person. Then we can be mental cases together!

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: New Jersey. USA
Posts: 670

Normally this is not my cup of tea, to interest myself in these flame wars.

I would really like to say something right now, but I don't want the illusion of me, to be tag teaming wonderaz with the rest of everyone else here. Anything that I have to say to him will be done in private.

What do I have to say to him? Nothing at all.

In a flaming war, once it gets out of control you must accept that you lost. Not call in your buddies to protect you from what someone might have said. The flames that wonderaz used were disgusting attacks, but I guess they were called for in a way. Chantrea should not have to feel that just because there is public information about her, that can be used to flame her, that she can not talk to anyone in a less than perfect manner so she does not get flamed by them.

I am willing to come off here, like a selfish bastard, a jackass, or even an idiot. I am just giving my few words of what I am thinking right now. Caffeine will try and murder me for it, when he gets home, but I don't think he can run quite as fast as me. (last line was a joke, for those keeping track)

Maybe I am wrong on this whole thing. I am willing to be wrong, because this is an open forum. If someone thinks I am wrong, they know exactly where to reach me.
edit: third person first person and second person can not be used interchangably
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Everyone is a failure in some way. I am just a generic one.

[This message has been edited by Generic Failure (edited 01-04-2001).]

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Location: Location Location
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quote:

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Originally posted by Chantrea:
Third, if you want me to accept an "apology" from someone who hasn't done so in private first, and who I do not believe to be genuine. You are to be sadly disappointed.

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Location: MA
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quote:

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Originally posted by Dead_Inside:
A-HA! A common ground! Run with it people.

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