Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cambridge
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How was the Universe created?

Not sure if this has been touched upon in here, but I'll bring it up again.

There are many theorys but how do you think it was really created? In the post about friction I stated a small belief of mine.

Gravity is infinite. If I have a marble, its gravity can be felt all the way to one of the farthest galaxies. Of course it wont be very strong, but it has an infinite range.

So if you have something finite (momentum of the galaxies) and something infinite, the infinate thing, no matter how weak, will always win.

That doesn't exactly touch on how the universe was created, more on how it will end.

And moving into that, the Milky shows signs of merging (and has shown those signs) with another galaxy. Do you think there is a chance of a merging of all galaxies?


Blah tired of this subject now. I'll find some more theorys in a small bit.
[edit: adding last post]

quote:

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posted by caffeine

The paddle represents the matter and energy on one side of the universe, the ball represents matter and energy on the other side of the universe. The elastic string connecting the two represents the gravitational pull of both sides of the universe upon each other.

Starting from a point where both the paddle and ball are touching (pre Big Bang) we begin. A force pushes the ball and the paddle appart. At this point in time, the speed of both sides of the universe is at it's greatest. As the ball and paddle travel further from each other, the elastic string begins to be drawn taught. The pull of the string against the paddle and ball slow their speed, and eventually the gap between the paddle and ball can grow no larger. Now, the elastic string forces the paddle and ball to come together once more, just like the universal gravitational field will cause all matter and energy to reunite in the very, very distant future.

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*twirls her hair*
umm...i dont like to think of big deep questions like this caff...it hurts my wittle bwain!
*goes back to sucking on her lollipop*

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"Men are all alike--except the one you've met who's different."-Mae West

"Brains are an asset to the woman in love who's smart enough to hide 'em."- also Mae West

[This message has been edited by Princess_Chelle (edited 01-15-2001).]

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I thought there were signs that it was speeding up. Something about the red-shift.

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As this theory goes...All the universe will eventually end up as one. However This process Will take Aeons to happen. Everytime 2 stars collid we have a super Nova, which pushes those colliding galaxies apart towards another. This contines like Billard balls back and forth through the out reaches of the universe. "Evenutlly" we find our self in a universe with no pulling masses exept ONE. Once the is only one gravity in the universe will the remains of of it all become one source. In therory the remain particles will contiously push on each other until the again eruppt. Expanding again. They will then repeat the process. et inifitum.
[sp chek maybe needed to read the above]

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Location: NYC
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if there is enough matter in the universe for the gravity to catch up with the expansion rate that was caused from the big bang, then at some point gravity will slow the expansion, stop it, then bring everything back into the big crunch

if there isn't enough matter the expansion will continue infinetly leaving our universe a desolate place at absolute zero

or there may be just enough matter to stop it and not enough to bring it back.

point is noone knows for sure, my bet is on the big crunch though.


our galaxy is slowly moving towards what is probably a black hole

[This message has been edited by GnpGnop (edited 01-15-2001).]

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One could see how the constant presence of gravitational pull by all these objects would eventually result in an increase in the speed of which you speak.
As objects get closer, the proximity would increase the strenght of the pull thereby speeding things up.
I could be full of shit but that seems to make sense to me.

And welcome, Form Unknown

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Gnpgnop would be right but in order for the universe to collapse on itself from it's current pattern of expanding, then there would have to be a crap load of undiscovered "dark matter" that scientists dont know about.

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fyi. links I found related to end-of-universe theory for the "friction" thread.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/universe/howbig.html
http://www.universepicture.com/
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/...universeweight/

Here's NASA on the big bang: http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/html/big_bang.html

[This message has been edited by missphinx (edited 01-15-2001).]

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Another look on things is that the universe is infinite. It never was created and it never will die, it always has been, is, and will be. Infinity is a hard concept to grasp..its a strange thing, yet so simple.

Energy and matter can be interchanged freely, and neither energy nor matter can be destroyed, only interchanged. Energy only does work when it is in one place. If you light a match, you have a concentrated source of heat (energy) and you can then do work with it, such as heating up some water. But when the flame dies out, the energy is still in the room, only its spread out. So the room temperature, and lets pretend its a totally sealed environment, is slightly higher than it was before. The energy is still there, its just spread out so no work can be done with it.

A black hole sucks up matter and energy and jams it all into one tiny little point of a density so high, its almost infiniate...but its actually finite, just a number with a LOT of digits. One quirk with black holes is that if there is no matter around them to absorb, the temperature of a black hole will eventually drop, and given enough time, the black hole will explode, releasing all of it stored up matter and energy. At those temperatures and preasures, the only matter that exists is subatomic partacles.

Now lets say there is one black hole that's been absorbing stars, galaxies, even other black holes for a trillion year. Thats 1000 billion years, or 222 times the Earth's age. At this point, the black hole has absorbed a LOT of stuff. And then it runs out of stuff to suck up, cools off, and...detonates.

My my...this seems rather like the Big Bang, dont you think? Vast amounts of particles and energy eminating from a singularity...

Now since we can only detect things at the speed of light, we can only see out to a range of 12 billion years or so, the age of the universe. We do not, and can not know what is beyond that. And then lets assume that one black hole develops naturally from a giant star...then it begins sucking things up. So perhaps in many many many many...(skip 4 pages of 'many')...many many years, that black hole will have consumed its share of the universe and grow cold and die, long long after Earth is dead and drifting in space. Perhaps there are a few species who have somehow managed to survive against all odds and escape the area in which the black hole is consuming, so they live to witness countless Big Bangs, see countless galaxies run out of fuel and die, their energy floating off into space, only to be collected up again and given a new start.


*falls over*


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If the universe is expanding, will someone please tell me what it is expanding INTO???

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I lit a fart and made all you people. Sorry.

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allllllllrighty then...

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quote:

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Originally posted by MrSherman:
I lit a fart and made all you people. Sorry.

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Yeah, I go along with Caffeine's theory of infinite expansions/collapses, and if it worked out that everything went the same you'd be born again too, which would be kinda of cool, even though you'd be far too dead to enjoy it again. I don't know if it would be possible to escape a black hole as massive as the entire universe, it would have one fuck of an event horizon, and you'd have to exert tremendous, constant acceleration (convert a few galaxy's worth of mass into energy), and I don't even know if you can travel through space when there is no space. Even so, the light from the big bang would eventually be affected by the gravitational pull of the big crunch and start bending towards it, it'd be pretty weird and get very hot near the end and create a massive event horizon, unless there's a way to create FTL travel, or at least cheat physics.

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jesus. it's like having a conversation with a vacuum cleaner.

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The universe is a great place to get lost in!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caffeine:
Another look on things is that the universe is infinite. It never was created and it never will die, it always has been, is, and will be. Infinity is a hard concept to grasp..its a strange thing, yet so simple.

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How was the Universe created?
I dont know, but this guy might....

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I think Entropy is cool.

Does that make me a cynic?

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Can there be more than one universe?

I don't think so. I think that the universe contains everything! Even other universes, if they exist.

If the universe were destroyed or collapsed, then where would it go?

It could come and stay with me. I would love to take care of it.

[edit: missing bold code]


[This message has been edited by GoFuckYourselves! (edited 01-15-2001).]

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i dunno go ask someone at Milliways



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quote:

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Originally posted by Caffeine:
Not sure if this has been touched upon in here, but I'll bring it up again.

There are many theorys but how do you think it was really created? In the post about friction I stated a small belief of mine.

Gravity is infinite. If I have a marble, its gravity can be felt all the way to one of the farthest galaxies. Of course it wont be very strong, but it has an infinite range.

So if you have something finite (momentum of the galaxies) and something infinite, the infinate thing, no matter how weak, will always win.


If you fart or clap your hands or scream at the absurdity around you it is infinite. It is the law of conservation of energy. They are listening to "the show of shows" on Pluto now.

Does a drop of water in bucket of urine make it drinkable? Does the tug of your marble move worlds moving against the force of the swell of the universe?

Nope.



That doesn't exactly touch on how the universe was created, more on how it will end.

And moving into that, the Milky shows signs of merging (and has shown those signs) with another galaxy. Do you think there is a chance of a merging of all galaxies?


Galaxies merge like freight trains. In other words...they dont. They collide. The event of two galaxies merging is beyond the scope of anyone but god. The resultant matter is only potential not survivors.

The galaxies of the universe are moving away from one another. Of course in the course of events two pool balls can collide. Even if your table is 1 googleplex light years across.

Forget Band and Crunch Caff. The Universe is an infinite construct. It ebbs and swells with a tide beyond our very small comprehension.

Think of an hourglass tipped on it's side. Coming and going for nothing of time, because time is the elastic not space.

In the singularity, what moves?

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlcoholSoopaFiend:
i dunno go ask someone at Milliways

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I believe I'll raise my hand now

love you all so much,



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First, the thread title contains an errant bias as a premise, namely that the universe WAS created. There is no reason at all to assume this.

The intrigue of the infinity concept has been mentioned. I personally find it significantly easier to conceptualize an infinite future than an infinite past. Something tugs at me when I try to comprehend infinity stretching into the past.

As for the nature of the universe, theories are constantly being revised. Just recently radio scientists were able to measure some aspect of the background radiation that (theoretically) seems to lock up the Big Band explanation. The age of the universe is still up for grabs; somewhere between 12 and 20 billion years ago.

Also undecided is the fate of the universe. I think current measurements/ theories predict a cosmic freeze. Far into the future, everything will slow down and then stop. I am not sure if they predict homogenous absolute zero (would that stop time too?).

Someone mentioned dark matter too, which is a major thorn in the side of astrophysics. Something on the order of 65% (I am probably wrong here and clarification is appreciated) of the expected matter in the universe just simply isn't there, at least as far as we can tell. The supercollider in Europe should help to settle some of that in few years.

I think it is cool that we smash atoms down to find out how big the universe is. The whole thing dovetails nicely.

The shape of the universe isn't even know for sure. Many of us simply envision it as a big ball of stuff, which leads to questions about what the universe is expanding into. There is a good chance the universe is something like a torus, which is like a funky cosmic donut I think. It might be like a 3D Mobius strip.

I was proud to hear that bit. In junior high I was thinking about it and wondering if the boundary of the universe wrapped back on itself, kind of like in Asteriods. You can never leave because there is no boundary. If you had a strong enough telescope and looked straight, you would look at the back of your head type of thing.

As for the existence of other universes, according to one model of the universe, we inhabit only one of all possible universe. Anything that can happen does happen. At every point in time where there was an option, all options happened, but we are stuck in one particular instantiation.

Remember the ChooseYourOwnAdventure book series? I loved those in grade school. The system of universes is kind of like that, only it has a choice for every single particle in every single instance. Starts to get pretty complicated when you start to think about it.

As complicated as this is, this interpretation does render a finite number of universes. It is only *possible* universes that can exist, not an infinite number of wacky worlds.

None of this explains how the universe came to be, but that isn't an answerable question. Steven Hawking proved that time began with the big bang (but don't ask me how!). One adjunct to that though is that nothing existed before the big bang. Something could have existed, but the is no necessity there.

Don't expect me to answer you when you now ask "the how in the hell did something come from nothing?" I am more interested in why the rules of this universe are the way they are. Why are the four main forces here? *THAT* is the hinky question for me.



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