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Spooky
twisty turny thing

Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7236

Post What is Science?

INspired by Kuglo, I decided to write this post. I apologise if it gets too long.

What is science exactly? What is the nature of science? What makes something be what we call 'scientific'. Many thinkers over time have asked this question. The answer is not as simple as we might originally think. When you look at the question deeply it comes to fruition that the answer is entwined with the idea that sceinec is not really a school, but more a model or mode of thought in which we gain knowledge. A set of predetermined rules that produce some kind of truth. However, as I will show they can never produce absolute truth.

One of the foremost thinkers on this subjkect is Karl Popper. Popper was rprimarily concerned with showing people what was not sceintific, or what he called pseudo science. As such, by doing this he would also explain what constitute scientific methodology. The end sum of this debate will be that sceince is in fact nothing more than method, and when the method is used we call the results scientific. However, like I said before they is one rule that must exist in all scientific claims.

The methodolgy then. To summarise it breifly the methodology is that of observation. Then testing. Then observing agin, then testing agin, unytil the results prove to a greater than 50% chance that the hypothesis proposed is either correct or false. N.B. Note the word chance.

The reson we mus note the word chance is that in reality no statement can be said to be absolute. Thus, if we take Kuglo's example in chat, that of gravity, we can say scientificall that when I drop a brick it will fall to the ground because of gravity. That does not however mean that gravity is absolute, becasue there is a logical opposition to that statement, in that it might actually go up. Of course we can test this numerous times and see that it won;t, but that still does not change the the logical opposuition that one day it might. Thus for Popper science is that which is tested until the samllest possible amount of chance is left and we can say with coinfidence that it our theory is right, but while still accepting the possibility it might not be.

The nature therefore of science and scientific theory is nothing more than observing and testing to a point where the logical opposition is so minute, as too make a statement be claimed to be scienitific. But we must alwasy accept, if we want to be the true sceinetist that that statement is not absolute truth.

If we move onto Thomas Kuhn, another great thinker, we will see why we must not acceot any 'sceintific' theory as absolute truth. Kuhn was influenced by Marx in his thinking. He took Marx's materialist conception of history, and its revolutionary elements,and applied it to science.

Kuhn, argued that science moves in revolutionary circles. That when a scienitist makes a break through, other sceintists pick up the idea. They test the idea, look for hoels in the idea,. try to expand the idea. Eventually a new scientist will come along and bring up a new idea or way of looking at things. The scientists studying the old idea will ebcome so overwhelmed by this idea that they will drop the old and one and concentrate all efforts, like before in the new one.

The classic example of this, used by Kuhn, is that of physics. If we lokm at the way understadning of time and space have gone through the centuries, we see that it began with Copernicus, Copernicus, introduced a new world view, which the community (eventually) embraced. This idea then fell to the ideas of Newtonian physics, these in tunr fell to the ideas of Einstein, and then in turn some of these feel to the ideas of Hawking.

Thus what we see in science are revolutions of ideas that follow a pattern.

Now, one of the things that Kuglo argued was that no matter what world view you choose to take from NEwton onwards, gravity exists. What Kuglo failed to see, was that the nature and understanding of gravity changed so extensively during the revolutions I cited above. Proves the arguments put forward by Popper in that science will never find absolute truth, but will only ever find 'best guesses' for want of a better word.

I thin to end I will say this. If one looks at science as a way and methodolgy of gaining the best guess about the world around us, then one can be content in accepting its theories as near truth. However one must alwasy accept that those 'facts' as Kuglo put it, might not always be fact for posterity, becasue the nature of science is such that fact are proved to be worng when the new theory arrives. One only has to look at General Relativity to see this. Einstein said that placing a constant in his Universe model was the 'greatest blunder' of his life. However, it now seems that that the 'blunder' may have actually be right.

Absolute truth is beyond us now, and will probably remain so. To think otherwise is folly, and wholly unscientific.

Thank for your time. I am out all day today, so don't expect me too answer any of the flames etc. I will be back tonight.

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sp00ky
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I am not expecting to change anything by this post other than awareness. Please do not take anything I say as fact, I am only relaying opinon of limited sources, who themselves know nothing and thus should also be ignored as heresay and could never be admissable in a court of law.

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Old Post 04-16-2001 09:37 AM
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Spooky
twisty turny thing

Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 7236

Post

Sorry about all the typos btw.

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sp00ky
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Old Post 04-16-2001 09:38 AM
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Spooky
twisty turny thing

Registered: Jul 2000
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As a side, I also forgot to mention that science as a methodology would not exist without philosophy. Philosophy is the art of asking questions, and science provied the framewrork to deduce best guess answer to those questions.

Hence the first scientist was Aristotle.

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sp00ky
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I am not expecting to change anything by this post other than awareness. Please do not take anything I say as fact, I am only relaying opinon of limited sources, who themselves know nothing and thus should also be ignored as heresay and could never be admissable in a court of law.

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Old Post 04-16-2001 09:55 AM
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mori-man
semanticaly empty

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: tokyo
Posts: 303

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ahh just like frederick neitche(?) said, science and philosophy are rarely true because they are mearly arguments to fuel a persons incling and its difficult to be rid of culteral inclings.
(but he said it better, and then again he said somethings that were quite scary, especiallly when he was getting at stopping cultural mixing so as to be able to recognise ones cultural inclings easier, and that the jews were both very good and very bad still its interesting if not entirely difficult, i had to use a dictionary, and those who know my postings know i rarely use one of those!!)


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oh for fucks sake

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Old Post 04-16-2001 12:01 PM
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Paint CHiPs
Viva Le Me

Registered: Jul 2000
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What is a more scientific point of view?

Athiesm, Agnosticism, or Theism.

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Old Post 04-17-2001 03:29 AM
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Goatboy
the anticlimax

Registered: Jul 2000
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What is more like a computer: butter or margarine?

Dumbass.

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A closed mouth gathers no feet.

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Old Post 04-17-2001 03:32 AM
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stipsjd
Fluffy Bunny

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: The land beyond your nightmares
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quote:
Originally posted by Goatboy:
What is more like a computer: butter or margarine?

Dumbass.




I would have to say.. I can't believe its not butter


(lovely how a beautiful thread was killed)


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The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. John Milton

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Old Post 04-17-2001 03:35 AM
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Goatboy
the anticlimax

Registered: Jul 2000
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Haha, good line though.

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Old Post 04-17-2001 03:37 AM
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Spooky
twisty turny thing

Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 7236

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quote:
Originally posted by Paint CHiPs:
What is a more scientific point of view?

Athiesm, Agnosticism, or Theism.



Personally I would say agnosticism is the most rational and scientific world view of the three.

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sp00ky
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I am not expecting to change anything by this post other than awareness. Please do not take anything I say as fact, I am only relaying opinon of limited sources, who themselves know nothing and thus should also be ignored as heresay and could never be admissable in a court of law.

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Old Post 04-17-2001 06:34 AM
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Spooky
twisty turny thing

Registered: Jul 2000
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Posts: 7236

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quote:
Originally posted by Goatboy:
Haha, good line though.



Agreed. Made me laugh first thing in the morning

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sp00ky
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Old Post 04-17-2001 06:35 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
#1 Asylum Dumbfuck!

Registered: Oct 2000
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I can't tell you how many people (and intelligent ones, too) believe in horoscopes! This, of course, is the total antithesis of anything scientific. So, then, how would "science" fit into most people's lives? They wouldn't "get it" if it hit them in their face. It's like their belief in "flying saucers" or "aliens amonst us". They can't discern fact from fiction anyway.

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Old Post 04-17-2001 06:43 AM
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Spooky
twisty turny thing

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quote:
Originally posted by GoFuckYourselves!:
I can't tell you how many people (and intelligent ones, too) believe in horoscopes!


Its funny that you say this GFY. Remeber I wrote about Popper wanting to show what pseudo science was. Well his main target in that assessment was Atrology.

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sp00ky
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Disclaimer
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I am not expecting to change anything by this post other than awareness. Please do not take anything I say as fact, I am only relaying opinon of limited sources, who themselves know nothing and thus should also be ignored as heresay and could never be admissable in a court of law.

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Old Post 04-17-2001 06:45 AM
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GoFuckYourselves!
#1 Asylum Dumbfuck!

Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Spooky:
quote:
Originally posted by GoFuckYourselves!:
I can't tell you how many people (and intelligent ones, too) believe in horoscopes!


Its funny that you say this GFY. Remeber I wrote about Popper wanting to show what pseudo science was. Well his main target in that assessment was Atrology.



I'm sure! Because it's so fucking idiotic that it's beyond my comprehension how ANYONE can take it seriously!

You know what else people take seriously in this city? PALM READINGS!! Gypsy's have storefronts where they give palm readings. What they really do is fleece a lot of terribly gullible people out of a lot of their money!

Don't get me started!

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Old Post 04-17-2001 06:52 AM
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ike
= ike

Registered: Mar 2001
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Science Rules! --Bill Nye, the Science Guy.

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1 + 1 = Window

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Old Post 04-17-2001 03:50 PM
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