Registered: Sep 2000
Location: The Bottom of the Toyem Pole
Posts: 9462

Cookies are great, but who needs them from Big Brother?

Report: Govt. not making the grade in Web privacy

A congressional report released Monday found that 64 federal Web sites use "cookies" that allow them to track the browsing and buying habits of Internet users. In one case, a government contractor was even given ownership of all the information collected from a Web site, according to the report.

No one cares until something happens, and then it is too late to do anything. If nothing else, people ought to be aware of this stuff for no other reason that to spare us the widespread indignation sure to erupt when people find out after the fact. Ignorance is no excuse for not following the law; I see no reason why it should be an excuse to whine about government impropriety.

But one thing on the positive side, I bet GW's password is pretty easy to guess. Shouldn't be to hard to hack that system.

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The Law of Fives is never wrong.

[This message has been edited by Nutrimentia (edited 04-23-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10174

So you're saying because it's not a commercial enterprise or some idiot's personal site, they shouldn't be allowed to use them?

Turn it around, and think that maybe, for a second, they employed them to facilitate the browsing experience for their users.

Where exactly is the "impropriety"?

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SETI@Home: join us!

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: The Bottom of the Toyem Pole
Posts: 9462

When I mentioned impropriety, I was referring to that hypothetical future case of abuse or neglect that causes an uproar. My attempted point was that when (alright, if) that happens, Joe Public will be all pissed off and start asking questions about why we didnt know about it and do something in advance. Truth is, we DO know about it, yet do nothing.

A cookie that keeps track of logins is fine and dandy and rather useful. A cookie that trackes the sites you go to and collects personal information is not. I am not upset by Uncle Sam's use of the former, but they shouldn't be involved in use of the latter.

And that little bit about allowing a contractor to keep that information: How pungent is that? I go to a government website to get some information and some unknown company gets to keep the records of my behavior? I don't like it, no sir.

I also saw a similar report recently that only a small, small percentage of people turn off cookies, those "ubiquitous trackers of information." Something along the lines of 7 of 1000 people.

When I heard about cookies that track you and follow you around and whatnot, I tried disabling them. That was akin to walking around with my eyes closed: it can be done, but very ineffective and cumbersome. Then I tried the "Alert me for every cookie" option, but spent more time trying to discern the purpose and intent of cookies than reading web content, so that too went out the window.

Cookies have become an integral part of how the web works. You can do without them, but it aint easy. But my opinoin is that we shouldn't have to worry about it, because they (whoever uses tracking cookies) shouldn't be doing it. I don't necessarily think this needs to be legislated away, but web users should always be informed that a cookie will do this and should never have to worry about the government doing this. Browser companies should build a browser that somehow filters those cookies from other benign and useful ones. I ahve no idea how plausible this is, but if they can build a browser like iCab that filters banners, they should be able to do this.



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The Law of Fives is never wrong.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10174

The potential for abuse exists at any site you visit, government or not. If you're concerned about the legitimacy of a given site, don't go.

Edit: as for "referring" info ... that's a piece of data available to the server when you visit a page. There are many legitimate uses for that data, see my above statement for how to handle those you think are abusing them. Cookies do not track you from site to site.

[This message has been edited by MstrG (edited 04-17-2001).]

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: The Bottom of the Toyem Pole
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*hands over his keys to the Asylum's executive washrooms and sulks out the door*

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The Law of Fives is never wrong.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: The Bottom of the Toyem Pole
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You sure about that MstrG? I haven't followed the tech press on this, just what I pick up here and there via Wired and perhaps USAToday or NYT. There is at least a rumor that there are cookies that monitor your history or browsing record and report that back to the home site.

If all a cookie did was remember me and keep track of my log/pass or shopping cart, no probs. But if a site is able to plant a cookie that tells them where I went after I visited their site, I opt out.

The problem is that there is no way to know which cookies are helpful to the consumer and which to the retailer. Then when you add in hardware identifiers like they tried to do with the PIII, I can't see how anyone other than advertisers and commercial exploiters could argue that is a necessary and useful aspect of web browsing.

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The Law of Fives is never wrong.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10174

Some interesting links por vous:

A discussion of cookies and how they work

A semi-technical description of the kinds of data that can be culled from your browser.

Put in a URL and it will show you what's in the HTTP header sent to the server by your browser.

And if you want to get real techie, the W3C specs for HTTP


[This message has been edited by MstrG (edited 04-19-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

This is the kind of thing that worries people.

DM

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choosy mothers choose evil

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10174

Yes, and to the point Nute was making in his second post comes this from the link you posted DM:

quote:

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...the cookies anonymously tracked users to the ONDCP's Web site and followed them anonymously as they traveled through its pages...

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

quote:

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Originally posted by MstrG:
...rat poisin.

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rat poison, you nazi!

Cookies don't concern me very much, but I know that some people are concerned about them and they also distrust the government. One of my friends went on for days about the drug sites tracking people.

D


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choosy mothers choose evil

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Dumbfucksville!
Posts: 12164

I love to dip my cookies in milk.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10174

Poison indeed! Thanks.

GFY, take it elsewhere.

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SETI@Home: join us!

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: New Jersey. USA
Posts: 670

Nutrimentia: Think of it as filling out a survey without having to spend the time filling it out. Or, for most people, without being asked if you wanted to fill out that survey, which I think is what people get ticked off about.

Is there any real danger with cookies? I doubt it, it's a victemless crime as far as I can see it, unless they are using cookies for more vicious things.

When I open up the asylum home page, and make my way to the lost forum, I have to accept two cookies(or is it one?). Do I know what they are for? Nope. Do I care? Of course not, this site is as good as trusted content for me.



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Not only am I a sexually deviant, misogynistic, immoral, wealthy, male prostitute, but I also sit on the board of directors of the organization that governs others of my kind.

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