Registered: Jul 2000
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I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Thread About Professional Sports

I was reading an article about a month ago that got me to thinking.

Article was titled "Are High Salaries Ruining Professional Sports?"

The article deduced "yes".

They had a few points.

For one, there is the inherent "when it becomes a business and not a sport, it loses its magic, its spirit" point, which is pretty hard to qualify but I guess makes sense. Look at the 1994 baseball season. Players, already making more in a year than I will in a lifetime, refused what I thought were reasonable salary caps and practically destroyed the sport with the worst strike in baseball history. They didn't care about the fans or the sport, they wanted to get paid.

Also, to pay for these high salaries, ticket prices just keep going up and up, which will obviously dissuade many people from buying them (I don't have any stats, but my gut would lead me to say that professional baseball ticket sales have gone down drastically in the last decade).

Also, does it make sports less fair? I mean, the richer teams can afford the best players, and thus will always have a HUGE edge over everybody else. I wonder how profit margin relates to win/lose? Smaller teams with less money can't afford the great players and thus they get mowed over. If the richest teams win the most games consistently, how is it an athletic competition?

I'm not sure I agree with it, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless. And, as I can't ever remember this conversation having occured here before, thought I would throw it out and see what other people think.

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Registered: Aug 2000
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Oh, I agree totally. There's no reason for the players to get paid that much. The problem with the baseball strike, thought is that the players did have a point, the owners were making way too much comparatively speaking. They were't really saying that they were underpaid, they just didn't think it fair that they did all the work just for the owners to sit back and make the lions share of the profits. Unfortunately the players came off looking really bad. Ironically, that was the first year I started watching baseball.

Your concern about ticket prices is right on. My husband really wants to take our sons to see the Indians play, but we just can't aford the $180 in tickets it will cost. It's not a family event anymore.

And there is a big discrepancy in what levels of talent teams can afford to buy. It's like some guy making $20,000 a year trying to build a race car that can compete in the Indy500. It aint happening.

Of course, there's nothing to be done, since it would be up to the owners to voluntarily lower their ticket prices, and since they regulate themselves, we have a better chance of watching figure skating in hell.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10121

1994 ruined baseball for me.

Up until then, I was an avid fan. I could quote stats on my favorite teams, watched it on TV, subscribed to The Sporting News just for the baseball coverage ... I was into it. Then the strike came, and it was clear to me who was in the wrong. I haven't gone back to it, and occassionally check in on how the Pirates are doing. I refuse to contribute the player's pockets after that fiasco. Just another reason unions suck.

That said, it's important to differentiate between what some would regard as "resraint of trade" or government regulation, and what happened here. In this case we're talking about an industry that couldn't find a satisfactory way to regulate itself. The goverment didn't do anything ... MLB let the benefits of capitalism run amok. They has the ability to fix things; look at what Pro Football has done since they instituted salary caps and revenue sharing. They are now the number one spectator sport (no, auto racing is not a sport). You don't have one or two teams dominating because they have a large media market and can afford to buy off the best players.

I can get into the history and romanticism of baseball past, but I'll never enjoy like I did in my youth.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: New Jersey. USA
Posts: 670

quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs:

Also, does it make sports less fair? I mean, the richer teams can afford the best players, and thus will always have a HUGE edge over everybody else. I wonder how profit margin relates to win/lose? Smaller teams with less money can't afford the great players and thus they get mowed over. If the richest teams win the most games consistently, how is it an athletic competition?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10413

I like sports, I watch everything but basketball really. I like to bitch about the modern day cry baby spoiled athletes as much as anyone else, but I don't blame them. If people are willing to reward such behavhior with fat contracts, the players would be fools not to take the money.

I think one of the only teams left with any of the magic of baseball are the Cubs. They play in an old stadium with a low payroll and still sell out games all the time. Even though they lose. I went to a game a Wrigley a few years ago and it was very cool.

D

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Yeah well, that's just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Generic Failure:
Take a look at the XFL's success, how... crappy it is, in my opinion at least. Now look at what those players are being paid, not much if you compare the salaries to other professional sports.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Gehenna
Posts: 1018

CHiPS, have you been reading my Forum again?

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Remember that we, as aggressors, have the intiative. Ruthlessly, rapidly, viciously...attack, attack, and when in doubt, attack again.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
CHiPS, have you been reading my Forum again?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Ivory Tower, USA
Posts: 1485

As I've alluded previously, I'm hopelessly in love with baseball, avidly following the Red Sox and Mariners.

And as most of us know, baseball's sick. Really sick. Greed, on both the players and owners side, now rules the sport. The owners need to recognize that they've over-exaggerated the reach of the sport. 5-8 teams could easily be cut loose, without any real loss of integrity.

The problem is that the players would never accept this arrangement. Fewer jobs would mean less opportunity to work.

And yes, I am convinced that high salaries are ruining the sport. There needs to be a revenue sharing system incorporated so that teams like the Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, and Yankees compete on a "level playing field" with teams like the Royals, Expos, and Devil Rays.

And don't even point to the recent success of the Twins and claim, "See! A small market team CAN compete!" Bull! Come August when they need a closer, the Twins will never be able to buy/rent one like the Yankees.

In the meantime, anyone remotely interested in baseballl needs to recognize what a joke of a commissioner Bud Selig has become.

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"Wisdom comes with winters."--Oscar Wilde

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 2532

I personally think it's rather greedy of the players. I mean, I don't like baseball, so I'll talk about something I do like...hockey.
I'd play in the NHL for less than I make at my current job, because it's something I love to do any way. Pay or no pay. What makes these people worth so much money? Because they've been playing since they were tiny and have incredible skill? If you look at it, Computer technicians (and I probably spelled that wrong) have an incredible skill as well. And I'm sure most have gone to school bunches to learn the knowledge they need. They're skills are what makes our (America's) world run. And yet, professional athletes get paid more to do something alot of people would do for free.

Ok, did that make any sense at all? It did in my head but that doesn't always mean it does written. As I'm sure you all will, let me know if I left out a point.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 316

quote:

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Originally posted by DevilMoon:
I like sports, I watch everything but basketball really. I like to bitch about the modern day cry baby spoiled athletes as much as anyone else, but I don't blame them. If people are willing to reward such behavhior with fat contracts, the players would be fools not to take the money.

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I agree 100%. Even though some of those players are ridiculously greedy, you can't blame them for taking the money. If I had the athletic abilities and someone offered me $20 million a year to put a ball through a hoop, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Who cares if it's right or wrong...morality isn't going to pay for my Lamborghini and 15,000/sf mansion

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
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here in the uk, football (soccer) has turned into a monster of an industry.

manchester united are now a billion-pound football club. they just spent £19M on purchasing a player. their star players earn up to £60,000 a week.

their players are treated like gods. same goes for most of the top clubs in the uk and in europe. there are players in italy and spain with £70M get-out clauses.

are they motivated?

most of them are. they want to win european cups and the like. but its about THEM winning. if they dont get the success, they move on. so the big problem nowdays is loyalty. players move to clubs were success comes easy and money is much.

so, i suppose the're motivated to beef up their bank accounts.



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I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Ivory Tower, USA
Posts: 1485

UJ raises a great point about player loyalty. Like G with his Pirates, I grew up being able to name the starting nine on most Red Sox teams from year-to-year. Players weren't rented guns who freely moved from team to team due to free agency. There was a dedication of player to city, and likewise of city to player.

The spector of free agency has certainly dampened fan loyalty and interest.

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"Wisdom comes with winters."--Oscar Wilde

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Gehenna
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How can you say it's "greedy" when they're merely demanding what the market will obviously bear? That's ridiculous.

If you apply the same standards to the behavior of your governments that you are applying to sports figures, you will see how ridiculously hypocritical it is for you to accept it from your government but not your entertainers.

Talk about greed? Look at that cunt Barbara Striesand. but you're not going to call HEr greedy, now are you?

I call bullshit on this whole thing. Have a standard and hold everyone to it, or stop whining about it.

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Remember that we, as aggressors, have the intiative. Ruthlessly, rapidly, viciously...attack, attack, and when in doubt, attack again.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
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there was a program on bbc1 called "the Dream factory" which showed how football agents are scouting for players as young as ten years of age.

clubs set up academys for young players. thats fine, but a 14year having an agent and demanding huge signing on fees is just plain fucking insane.

the point is, money comes first for this generation, and the sport second.

theres a highly rated player whos only 18 whos already buying BMW's and joking with his 18 year old teammate over who has the best car.

i know times have changed, and most sports have turned into huge industries - but few of these people are able to keep their feet on the ground.

at a young age, they should first learn to love their sport and not be pushed into the money side of things.

quote:

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Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
How can you say it's "greedy" when they're merely demanding ..... *SNIP*

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: New Jersey. USA
Posts: 670

quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs:

I had heard that the XFL isn't doing so hot, or at least way under expectations from the Networks.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Ivory Tower, USA
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Rogue, I'm not sure whom you're comments are directed towards.

In any case, several select baseball markets are able to tolerate the levels of greed exhibited by certain owners and players. But the result has been a league of vastly inferior play and competition. Revenue sharing is the only solution to this problem.

This aside, I must admit that I'm not following your point about government.

And I'm certainly no fan of Steisand as a performer. But how can you call her greedy? You might not like many of the causes to which she donates, but my understanding is that she's one of the most overly generous supporters of politics, charites, and the arts imaginable.

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"Wisdom comes with winters."--Oscar Wilde

[This message has been edited by Agoust (edited 04-30-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
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quote:

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Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
...Look at that cunt Barbara Striesand. but you're not going to call HEr greedy, now are you?...

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: 51N3, 114W3
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quote:

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Originally posted by DevilMoon:
Everything is a business these days. That is a fact of life. Everything is marketed the same way using the same formulas. Sports teams look at what will bring people in the door, what will raise ratings so they can charge more for ads. They look to see what they can squeeze from the city and where they can go that might offer some more. They spend tons of money on players that will get corporations to spend tons of money on a sky box.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Playa d'en London
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"franchise"

this is the one thing i just cant get my head around. a team plays in a town for years and years, gets bought out and uproots to another part of the country.

so in essence, its not the same 'team' anymore is it? and what of the supporters?



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I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
- Calvin (and Hobbes)

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: 51N3, 114W3
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quote:

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Originally posted by urbanjunkie:

so in essence, its not the same 'team' anymore is it? and what of the supporters?

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
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Too bad if they win, the cup comes to Colorado, not Quebec. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

-m


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