Registered: Mar 2001
Location: tokyo
Posts: 303

New war?

I just heard from a poltical journalist that i teach english too, that the new japanese primeminister (who was recently voted after the last one was forced to go because he didnt give a shit) err ahh yes the new one wants japan to have a fully recognised military (at the moment they have a defence force, which has little power) they were forced to have no real army through article nine of the constitution put in place by america, ie america didnt want japan to have an army again after they killed millions of chinease and koreans.
Now china and korea are pissed at this new proposal (i dont think its a good thing to piss those people off) so my question, does anybody know the USA standing on this situation, what do you think the USA should do?, currently the USA supplies the military power for Japan should they need it, i guess it would save money for the USA in the long run, but can japan be trusted, the new prime minister is quite right wing, and very popular for his views on re-installing the military- thats how it went wrong last time i think.

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oh for fucks sake

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 7236

in all honesty mori, its none of Americas business whether Japan have an army or not. Although I doubt that the current administration would like to isolate another nation in South East Asia

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sp00ky
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Disclaimer
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I am not expecting to change anything by this post other than awareness. Please do not take anything I say as fact, I am only relaying opinon of limited sources, who themselves know nothing and thus should also be ignored as heresay and could never be admissable in a court of law.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: tokyo
Posts: 303

hmm, i guess now they have no business, but the japanese still kinda respect them, and if america frowned upon it they may not go through with the vote, but it may back fire and japan may hate the USA (they were pretty pissed when the american submarine crashed into a student training fishing vessel and killed loadsa students).

But China and Korea still really hate japan, and the japanese still have the old racism about their asian cultures.

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oh for fucks sake

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 10152

mori (or Nute), what kind of things have been reported about the fishing boat accident?

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SETI@Home: join us!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Posts: 19115

Fine, but therein is the problem with what we are to the world.
Do we suppress the independence of Japan so as to not irritate China?
Why don't we just make Japan fly the stars and stripes over the rising sun?
I understand the potential implications of letting Japan control their own destiny but I just don't feel it is the place of the US to continue to lord over a country that has developed into a world economic power, whichc Japan has.
This is not some little third world country that just got electricity and now wants an A bomb.

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Don't argue with me.

[This message has been edited by wonderaz (edited 04-30-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz:
I understand the potential implications of letting Japan control their own destiny but I just don't feel it is the place of the US to continue to lord over a country that has developed into a world economic power, whichc Japan has.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: zanzibar
Posts: 10477

Japan has actually been in a pretty good position. They get some of the best technology in the world guarding them and they are free to spend the money that would ordinarily go to defense costs in other areas. I have always been led to believe that this really has worked out to Japan's benefit, but maybe I am misremembering.

DM



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Yeah well, that's just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Nanaimo BC, Canada
Posts: 1525

I had always thought that after WW2, Japan decided that violence and war were not the way to solve things, and thus only used an SDF (Self-Defence Force) and no nukes or other large weapons. Isn't that "no war" philosophy a deeply rooted part of Japanese culture?

Perhaps not so much, these days. . . .

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Anger=Red

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Houston
Posts: 545

America would not easily give up the convenience of our forward deployed bases in Japan and Okinawa. It's been a win-win situation for both parties since the end of WWII. America protects its Pacific Rim interests with a military presence and Japan gets a powerful bodyguard. You may not agree with the psuedo-imperialism but it's the nature of our politics.

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I am a product of my environment and the torch bearer of a white trash legacy. Give me strength.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19584

Well I don't see why, just because Japan gains it's own military, we would have to give up our bases, I mean, are they suddenly going to turn against us because they have their own troops? I don't see why, it's not like Great Britain lording it over a colony back in the 1700's. All America has done is limit their military, but kept them safe from outside harm, while allowing an otherwise unrestricted self government. Well mostly, no more pressure than any other nation we have strong economic ties to anyways.

-m


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Freedom means taking the bad with the good.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Houston
Posts: 545

It's really a question of geography. Japan really doesn't have a lot of room to develop new bases for a regular military. If they did want a regular, full sized military, Japan would simply revoke the leases America has for our bases instead of develop expensive real estate. I honestly don't see this happening though.

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I am a product of my environment and the torch bearer of a white trash legacy. Give me strength.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: library
Posts: 19584

Mmm, yeah I forgot to take the islands size into account and the fact that all real estate there is at a permium, evidenced by the fact that it was cheaper to build a massive man made island for a new airport.

-m


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Freedom means taking the bad with the good.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

quote:

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Originally posted by Spooky:
in all honesty mori, its none of Americas business whether Japan have an army or not.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

Thinking on it for a minute more, that sure would make for an interesting change in the Asian stability dynamic.

Hmmmm. What do you guys think the result of an independent Japanese military be?

Hmmm. I guess that was the question from the get go.

I have no answer I suppose.

An American backed Japanese and Taiwanese military, an increasingly hostile China, Korea being Korea.

You Asians, I swear to God you're going to start the next World War. *hopes*

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Posts: 19115

quote:

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Originally posted by Spooky:
in all honesty mori, its none of Americas business whether Japan have an army or not. Although I doubt that the current administration would like to isolate another nation in South East Asia

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: tokyo
Posts: 303

nah, they got enough room.

things to note!

if they do have an independant army then they will have to get nuclear arms to have any put off clout against the people it really pissed of and still does piss off (japan recently wanted to change its history books to down play the attrocities they performed on china and korea, obviousley pissing them off)

If japan get an army they will have to fund it, japan is currently in a depression(well for japanese standards) Its a crazy idea to have to increase tax'es now to fund an army.

The last war was started because, like germany, japan was going through a mass depression and wanted to gain control of natural resources(not having many themselves, most of the electricity comes form nuclear power stations)

Japan is like seriously earthquake prone, it lies on the joint of three faults, man i woul not want nuclear arms stored here (although i gues the americans have them here, and there are already numerous powerplants.

If there was one thing that would unite north and south korea it would be for the destruction of japan, if the japs get all tough again.

So, it would be crazy in this economical depression to start an army, it would really piss off china and korea, it would make most of asia a hostile place (india pakistan, china japan, korea, korea japan, taiwan)

Yes the japanese decided that war was not the way to go after their surrender way back yonder, but most of these social conscious aware persons are long gone, and they had to suffer poverty and starvation (japan was in depression before the war, and really fucked up by the end) so they had the pain to realise , but now its a seriously consumer based country where most of the population knows more about perfect french bread and loui vitton handbags than its own poilitical set up, it could get dragged into anything if it was advertised as a good thing....just like before.


and regarding the sub boat collision, japanese press attacked america for not appologising and not rescuing the teenagers with the sub. And then afterwards not wanting to salvage it, so then they run a list of other 'accidents' the USA had caused.
Making you look bad (of course they neglect to show the accidents that japan have caused)
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oh for fucks sake

[This message has been edited by mori-man (edited 05-01-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Location Location
Posts: 26420

quote:

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Originally posted by wonderaz:
With the current world situation and the power that has developed in China and Korea. I think that the Article should be modified. The US would still be available as a military ally if the Japanese choose to maintain relations with the US which I would think they would considering the economic ties we have.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: louisiana
Posts: 11

This is how im seeing this if China and korea pose a threat to us we use force if necessary.

We offer to Japan help when needed if applicable under set circumstances.
Why shouldn't we help other countries with ties to us who aid in our economic status by holding trades and what not. Lets say we dont help japan a close nation in trades with us then they become like china and korea so you dont want another india/pakistan but you will get a china korea and japan all hating each other and japan hating us and possibly china and korea helping japan to get us.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Beatrice, Nebraska
Posts: 18808

Thanks for dredging up a two year old thread!

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The pinnacle of Failbot technology.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: louisiana
Posts: 11

well thank you i try my best to please everyone

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sedona, Arizona
Posts: 19115

Considering the flailing about the the idiot running NK has done, Japan needs some ass whoopin capability.

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Registered: Mar 2002
Location: My Own Reality
Posts: 321

quote:

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Originally posted by Paint CHiPs

I mean, in my estimation, it is "right" to arm Taiwan to the teeth. But I don't neccessarily think that we should just go out and do it.

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