Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 196

Blackholes and wormholes and such..

I was looking over at Stephen Hawkings website and the glossary section.
There were definitions of blackholes and wormholes and all kinds of neat things. I was wondering if anybody knows just how accepted these are in the scientific community. I'm not into it much but I do like reading about it and I'm just fascinated by the idea.
I remember reading this book a while back about a guy who was explaining his idea to build a black hole about a light year away and experiment with it. I remember him seeming to think that one could go into it (possible memory lapse here) by not going right into it because of the deadly gravity, but by going into it much like water goes down a drain. Anyway I liked the book as far out and crazy as it probably seems. Whats do you guys and gals think of these things?
I don't see much of a way to explore the universe very far, not by any sort of conventional means anyway. Shits just too far.


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wherever he goes the people all complain

[This message has been edited by Saint Stephen (edited 06-28-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2990

*on a side note

"Sliders" the TV series is back on the air.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 196

heh

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wherever he goes the people all complain

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 7113

Blackholes are rather accepted as they are detectable. Wormholes on the other hand.. well, it would be hard for you to find many well respected scientists that accept the same theory.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1374

Well, the 'man' has finally completely stopped (and reversed!) a beam of light using one of them there bose-einsteinian compounds and something else that slips my mind (damn dirty apes!). On practical use was suggested using a laser that was slowed and accelerated repeatedly (think wavelike fluctuation about the actual waves of the light) sent into where they *think there is a black hole and record what happens. Im putting my money on purple aliens getting pissed and flying outta the thing and whacking us all. Damn dirty aliens.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 196

Not to be overly stupid (well, okay) but this 'man' you refer to is stephen hawking?


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wherever he goes the people all complain

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1374

Good question. The answer is no, Hawking hasnt done much practical work with the compounds and procedures involved in altering lights speeds and or paths. Hes mostly theory. Dont get me wrong, I love the guy. I went to one of his lecture series at the university of texas a couple years back.

Anyway, the 'man' in question is actually several different groups of scientists whose names or affiliations excape me at the moment. I havent kept up an active thirst for theoretical physics lately. : /

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 7113

quote:

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Originally posted by yMQ:
Well, the 'man' has finally completely stopped (and reversed!) a beam of light using one of them there bose-einsteinian compounds and something else that slips my mind (damn dirty apes!). On practical use was suggested using a laser that was slowed and accelerated repeatedly (think wavelike fluctuation about the actual waves of the light) sent into where they *think there is a black hole and record what happens. Im putting my money on purple aliens getting pissed and flying outta the thing and whacking us all. Damn dirty aliens.

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Or you could just assume that big mass thats in the night sky that seems to be trapping light..is well.. a black hole.
Black holes, or no black holes, we won't be effected by such a thing in any of our lifetimes.




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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1374

Well, youre probably right about it not affecting any of us. But, that whole night sky thing doesnt trap light it just doesnt have much to reflect or refract it back at us. Its all good though.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon. America.
Posts: 2076

Mr. Stephen: Look up Cygnus X-1.

Wormholes are still theory, however, black holes are looking pretty real.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 196

Thanks, I was looking at a little something and it said that if indeed they were absolutely sure that it would give more proof of Einsteins theory of relativity.
I don't know much about the general theory of relativity (maybe I do and just don't know it) but could someone explain how it would give proof of the theory and how it predicted their existence?

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wherever he goes the people all complain

[This message has been edited by Saint Stephen (edited 06-28-2001).]

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: I don't fukn' know!
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I feel:

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Bangor, ME
Posts: 10173

watch out PMG!!!!!!!! i'm sending maximillian after you!!!!!!!!

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"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools."
-Ernest Hemingway

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 987

Blackholes are awesome. Wormholes too. I love scifi

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Paperclips and Nosebleeds

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: 54.60°N 5.70°W
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St Stephen: Black holes look pretty real. Einstein's big idea -- or one of them -- was that gravity is a result of mass curving the region of space it sits in. Much like the mattress on your bed deforms when you lie on it, any physical object does the same to space-time. Other objects coming near this one will "fall" towards it.

Einstein produced a series of equations, and physicists are still examining their consequences. One of these runs thus: mass produces space-time distortion, which produces gravity. To escape, one needs enough energy and velocity to overcome the local gravity. But what if so much mass collects in one place that the required velocity -- the "escape velocity -- becomes faster than the speed of light? In broad terms, it's not possible for anything with mass to travel faster than this speed, so ... ?

What you get is a black hole. A region in which there exists an infinite curvature of space-time, and a lot of mathematical and philosophical headaches.
Recent research has looked at the supermassive black hole thought to reside at the centre of our galaxy (and similar stories), and shown that the theoretical prediction that black holes spin is true.

No evidence for wormholes yet, other than mathematical curiosity, and the idea of getting into a black hole and getting out alive again remains purely in the realm of sci-fi.

(Besides, if you travel at anything like the speed of light, relatavistic effects like time dilation mean that as you speed up, your time slows in relation to elsewhere. If you managed to actually hit the speed of light, the universe would end. Bummer, hm?)

[This message has been edited by Pangloss (edited 06-29-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
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I personally think Kaku is better than Hawking, particular his writing style in helping Arts type student understand heavy physics etc. Would you agree Pangloss?
http://www.mkaku.org/

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sp00ky

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: A New England
Posts: 9187

and the idea of getting into a back hole without getting out remains purely in the realm of sci-fi.

Au Contraire.

Aminal knows more of this than anyone.

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[This message has been edited by Goatboy (edited 06-13-2001).]

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: 54.60°N 5.70°W
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Goatboy: I believe you. If he cares to get his theories published, I'm on first-name terms with a few editors of journals in this area. Have him mail me. I'll even referee the papers for him.

Spooky: Kaku has a fine style, but this book is the layperson's bible to understanding general relativity. (Kip S. Thorne: "Black Holes and Time Warps - Einstein's Outrageous Legacy")

Well, either that or we'll wait for the reviews to come in from Dr Aminal's work.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: A New England
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I don't want to give away his secrets but I believe he uses prodigious amounts of KY.

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[This message has been edited by Goatboy (edited 06-13-2001).]

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: 54.60°N 5.70°W
Posts: 1950

KY? There has been talk of using exotic matter to power hyper1337 engines recently, but I had no idea Aminal was at the cutting edge.

Last time we spoke, he said he was into "rimming" black holes, whatever that meant. I can only assume he was skirting the event horizon and using gravitational sling-shots to prevent getting sucked into the maw.

Mind you, pitchers know less about the game than receivers.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 7113

quote:

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Originally posted by Pangloss:

Last time we spoke, he said he was into "rimming" black holes, whatever that meant. I can only assume he was skirting the event horizon and using gravitational sling-shots to prevent getting sucked into the maw.

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Actually, the way he explained it all to me, was that he actually could go into the blackhole, but if he went in too far.. thats where he got kinda fuzzy. Something about surgical removal. *shrugs* aminal always does seem to be the leader in his field.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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quote:

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Originally posted by Pangloss:
Spooky: Kaku has a fine style, but this book is the layperson's bible to understanding general relativity.

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 196

Good post Pangloss, thank you.
Looks like they used Dali for the portrait to represent the Dilation of time .
He's always been one of my favourites.
And if somehow we do space travel, and we can somehow get close to the speed of light for travel, theres still the problem of debris, right?
I know nothing of this 'rimming', although I've had frequent problems with the event horizon, especially after Mexican food.

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wherever he goes the people all complain

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